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Magic: The Gathering You Make the Card RTR contest: Returning Mechanics: Rakdos Wither
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 26, 2012 - 9:26PM #41
HairlessThoctar
Date Joined: Dec 27, 2009
Posts: 7,123
VOTING PERIOD IS OVER
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 11:30AM #42
Rush_Clasic
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2003
Posts: 12,355

Dec 26, 2012 -- 10:47AM, HairlessThoctar wrote:

While all-inedness is admirable, I think what MaRo was going for when he said wither was the idea that the Rakdos weaponize pain in a very visceral way. At their worst, they're sadomasochistic loonies, and Wither can play off of that very well.

The all-in philosophy works, but it is only one facet to the Rakdos, and I feel that there are others worth exploring.
I will admit the wither on my design has almost no flavor to it, but I felt that the mechanics played into the top-down flavor of a juggler quite well, for example.


My issue with Wither isn't its lack of all-in aggression; it's that it very much encourages the opposite. Rakdos is indeed about more than all-in tactics, but it certainly isn't at all about grinding out wins, and that's what wither does best: if nicks you here, nicks you there, let's you suffer a long and agonizing death. I agree it fits black/red, just not what I think of as Rakdos. 

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 2:34PM #43
bay_falconer
Date Joined: Oct 12, 2010
Posts: 9,710

Dec 24, 2012 -- 10:33AM, Rush_Clasic wrote:

Rakdos is about "all-in"; hellbent and unleash are great depictions of that. Wither... ain't. Wither is so grindy in comparison. I'm surprised MaRo chose it as his "filler" mechanic for the guild. Anyway, how do we make wither more about the short-term and less about the long-run?




Infect is "all-in", but it feels more Simic. My best infect decks were and , but the mechanic is neither Izzet nor Gruul. (I use it as a combo win in a few other formats. In EDH, Doran likes Priests of Norn , and Ghave, Mimeoplasm, and Rafiq like infectious dudes in general. In Legacy, I use Ritual into Phyrexian Vatmother , Distortion Strike next turn.)

I personally can't imagine a Ravnica block with -1/-1 counters, mostly because Simic.

Jun 27, 2012 -- 12:04AM, GM_Champion wrote:

Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.


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5 months ago  ::  Dec 28, 2012 - 2:49PM #44
Esterdi
Date Joined: Nov 7, 2012
Posts: 1,346
My best infect deck is monoblue, I didn't see the benefit of adding red tbqh...
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 8:28AM #45
FZero
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2011
Posts: 85

Dec 28, 2012 -- 11:30AM, Rush_Clasic wrote:

Dec 26, 2012 -- 10:47AM, HairlessThoctar wrote:

While all-inedness is admirable, I think what MaRo was going for when he said wither was the idea that the Rakdos weaponize pain in a very visceral way. At their worst, they're sadomasochistic loonies, and Wither can play off of that very well.

The all-in philosophy works, but it is only one facet to the Rakdos, and I feel that there are others worth exploring.
I will admit the wither on my design has almost no flavor to it, but I felt that the mechanics played into the top-down flavor of a juggler quite well, for example.


My issue with Wither isn't its lack of all-in aggression; it's that it very much encourages the opposite. Rakdos is indeed about more than all-in tactics, but it certainly isn't at all about grinding out wins, and that's what wither does best: if nicks you here, nicks you there, let's you suffer a long and agonizing death. I agree it fits black/red, just not what I think of as Rakdos. 



I kind of disagree. Rakdos would probably find a slow, painful death pretty amusing.

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5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 11:48AM #46
bay_falconer
Date Joined: Oct 12, 2010
Posts: 9,710

Dec 28, 2012 -- 2:49PM, Esterdi wrote:

My best infect deck is monoblue, I didn't see the benefit of adding red tbqh...




Well, with blue/red, you get things like Curse of Stalked Prey and Furor of the Bitten . Plus, the only sword infect can't use as well as other deck archetypes is Sword of War and Peace .

With red/green, it's all about Goblin Tunneler . Remember, your creature is still unblockable after you cast Giant Growth on it.

Red itself has Ogre Menial and Razor Swine . A 2/3 first striker for that becomes 4/1 if unblocked is good, right?

Jun 27, 2012 -- 12:04AM, GM_Champion wrote:

Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.


----
Autocard is your friend.

[c]Lightning Bolt[/c]
= Lightning Bolt
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 11:57AM #47
Esterdi
Date Joined: Nov 7, 2012
Posts: 1,346
Yes, you could play those red pumps...or you could just Distortion Strike .

And Goblin Tunneler is unwieldy when you could just throw your Blighted Agent s in and start hitting right away. Ogre Menial is very mana intensive for a deck archetype that wants itself to be blitz aggro.
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 6:13PM #48
HairlessThoctar
Date Joined: Dec 27, 2009
Posts: 7,123
Aaaaaanyway.
Sorry for the lateness; Holiday BS.

CRITIQUES

ConfusedAsUsual: A nasty bit of bit of bookkeeping to be sure, It's nice that it can represent a threat in two ways.  
Catotheyounger: Great design, but I worry that this might be criminally undercosted. This lies somewhere between an anthem and Curse of Death's hold .
Cats_and_me: Very distinctive design. I'm getting a kind of street performer vibe off of the 'any player' ability.
Ulcaster: Simple, but effective. I've become rather fond of the jokers screwing with blocking shtick, and I feel this works well. Not sure why this is black though.
Esterdi: Repulsive imagery, but I figure that's what you were going for. I'm still not sold on two different kinds of removal, even if the arguably 'better' one is more expensive.
vlord: this is... my god, this is delightful.
bay_falconer: Surprised this wasn't done the first time around.
Dream_Spinner: Whoa, nice marriage of effects. It paints a nice picture and it's very distinctive. Good job!
Purplebackpack89: Normally I wouldn't protest the +1/-1 on the anthem effect, but it feels weird seeing it next to the -1/-1 counters on the next line. The effect is nice, but the aesthetics bother me.
Yxoque: Somewhat reminds me of Hatchet Bully . I like puzzles like this one.
Altimis: I would change it to 'each other creature' just so there's no confusion on whether or not she dies to her own ability, or potentially put the shuffle in as part of the cost.
Jaz: I loved that game! :D No but seriously folks; I'm pretty sure one of the reasons that Chandra's Spitfire  doesn't trigger off of combat damage is that it's so much easier to track that way.
Rush_Classic: I can't see this doing well outside of draft, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Really interesting game play. My biggest gripe about it is that it doesn't feel particularly Rakdosy to me, and the flavor text does not help in that regard.
EpicLevelCommoner: THis makes for an intersting comparion to Bay_Falconer's  design but I feel like it works. Gold cards can be more aggressively costed than something in either color because of the strain on the manabase, and this 'making sense' is a good example of that.

  
JUDGE'S PICKS

Third place, +10 BRAGGING RIGHTS
 vlord, Rakdos Mace I find fault with the cost since Ravnica has no etherium, but that's about it. Its a sadistic little game that makes every combat a delight to withhold.

Second place, +20 BRAGGING RIGHTS
Yxoque, Rakdos Knife-Nut
A persistent beater, a puzzle box, and a sadomasochist that could call the Rakdos home. I have no problems with this.

  First place, +30 BRAGGING RIGHTS
Dream_Spinner, Ragamuffyn Choir It tells a story, and its distinctive besides. All the proper ingredients for a cool card.
    
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5 months ago  ::  Dec 29, 2012 - 6:20PM #49
HairlessThoctar
Date Joined: Dec 27, 2009
Posts: 7,123
PEOPLE'S VOTE

Second place, +20 BRAGGING RIGHTS each
catotheyounger, cats_and_me, HairlessThoctar (yay me!), Esterdi
one vote each

First place, +30 BRAGGING RIGHTS each
Dream_Spinner, Ulcaster
two votes each 

congrats to all of our winners.


And now for some news.
I will be putting the last five rounds of this ongoing thing on hold until after Gatecrash is released.
Partly so that we can all get a feel for the way the guilds are now in form and function, and partly so that I have enough time to forget how much of a pain in the butt it is to write critiques for all of the entries.    
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Magic: The Gathering You Make the Card RTR contest: Returning Mechanics: Rakdos Wither
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