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Switch to Forum Live View Ravager Affinity: What was it like?
6 months ago  ::  Jan 04, 2013 - 10:47AM #51
Rush_Clasic
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2003
Posts: 12,564

Dec 31, 2012 -- 2:30PM, Stasis_20 wrote:

Prior to Skullclamp/Ravager affinity, there was quite a bit of diversity in the meta.  There was some affinity, but very little.  I remember a very clunky blue/white control that was being played with success at the time, and the early stages of a Tooth and Nail deck.  Goblins was very prevalent still, and there were a handful of other decks, but nothing was particularly dominant.  Skullclamp/Ravager sucked the air out of the room.  Prior to banning skullclamp, there was almost nothing that could beat that deck.  It was so unbelievably consistent, and even pure hate decks made very little ground against it.


Meh, not that diverse. There was Goblins, GoblinBidding, Slide, and Big White. Competitively, Affinity was always tier 2 until Darksteel came out. One of the bigger problems is that the two blocks didn't mesh at all. There were no decks using both Mirrodin cards and Onslaught cards since both designs were so insular. That made it best block deck vs. best block deck. Tooth and Nail wasn't a deck until Darksteel, really.

Skullclamp , funny enough, increased the diversity. There were a myriad of viable decks, but you always had to play the Clamp. Elf and Nail, GoblinBidding, and Raffinty were still the best clamp decks, though, so it didn't help a whole lot.

Cranial Plating was the last straw for me. As if the deck wasn't good enough already.

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 04, 2013 - 10:09PM #52
MrIndigo
  • Mr. Indigo
Date Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 13,429

Jan 4, 2013 -- 10:47AM, Rush_Clasic wrote:

Dec 31, 2012 -- 2:30PM, Stasis_20 wrote:

Prior to Skullclamp/Ravager affinity, there was quite a bit of diversity in the meta.  There was some affinity, but very little.  I remember a very clunky blue/white control that was being played with success at the time, and the early stages of a Tooth and Nail deck.  Goblins was very prevalent still, and there were a handful of other decks, but nothing was particularly dominant.  Skullclamp/Ravager sucked the air out of the room.  Prior to banning skullclamp, there was almost nothing that could beat that deck.  It was so unbelievably consistent, and even pure hate decks made very little ground against it.


Meh, not that diverse. There was Goblins, GoblinBidding, Slide, and Big White. Competitively, Affinity was always tier 2 until Darksteel came out. One of the bigger problems is that the two blocks didn't mesh at all. There were no decks using both Mirrodin cards and Onslaught cards since both designs were so insular. That made it best block deck vs. best block deck. Tooth and Nail wasn't a deck until Darksteel, really.

Skullclamp , funny enough, increased the diversity. There were a myriad of viable decks, but you always had to play the Clamp. Elf and Nail, GoblinBidding, and Raffinty were still the best clamp decks, though, so it didn't help a whole lot.

Cranial Plating was the last straw for me. As if the deck wasn't good enough already.




Affinity was quite a major deck right from the beginning, it wasn't just a little part of the metagame. Broodstar Affinity (Or Sarnath Affinity, in some circles) was a dominant block force and a Tier 1 deck, along with RW Slide, W/x Control decks, Goblins, Big Red/Anan-Go and to a lesser extent Elves and White Weenie/Soldiers.  Those Affinity decks started to move to Anti-Affinity decks with Furnace Dragons and Seething Songs as a sideboard. At the first block PT (Kobe), Gabriel Nassif took TwelvePost Tooth and Nail to 2nd place, and TwentyUrza became a thing in Standard. 

Then Darksteel hit, the earliest Clampfinity decks were mainly red using Slobad, Atogs, Furnace Dragons... they then started dropping their curves as they added Ravager and AEther Vials until the nearly-all-artifact builds arose. Meanwhile, Goblin Bidding and Elf & Nail also became a big thing now it was fueled with Skullclamp - it didn't take long for every other deck to be eliminated from serious contention in Standard - it was basically just those three (Big Red decks also in Block, because they would just hope to fight Affinity every game).

Ravager Affinity was quite cheap at the time, and the fact that it could just Shrapnel Blast and Disciple it's way through games without trying meant it was a hugely popular deck. It was typically hitting 50%+ attendance, even though the decks Elf and Nail were actually putting up better results in many tournaments because of its slightly-better-than-even matchup with Affinity decks.

Then the bans came shortly before 5th Dawn. Goblins basically started dying out to Affinity, since it had similar speed and Aggression but more consistency and Shrapnel Blasts/Disciples to combo-kill - The release of Eternal Witness, Krark-Clan Ironworks and Cranial Plating returned Affinity to the top tables alongside Tooth and Nail, Ironworks combo, UG Crystal Shard/Rude Awakening decks, and GW Slide.

Kamigawa then rotated in; Goblin and Slide vanished, and no Kami block decks really made it into Standard competition against Tooth, Ironworks, and Affinity. Affinity was still making like 50% minimum attendance, and attendance numbers were dropping rapidly. Affinity wasn't getting all the wins, but it was boring people - every tournament, it would be an expectation to play Affinity every second round, and it was not surprising to play 4 or 5 rounds of Affinity in a row.

Feeling the falling attendance, and the poor sales of Kamigawa product (good for drafting, terrible for everything else), R&D stepped in and banned every key piece of the Affinity deck - Disciple, Ravager, the lands, AEther Vial. Their goal here wasn't to make Affinity 'fair' - it was to eliminate it entirely because they needed to guarantee that players wouldn't have to play against the bugbear anymore, so they'd start coming to tournaments again. They were also concerned that if they just banned Ravager and Disciple and Vial, the Affinity players would just switch to Krark-Clan Ironworks, and the problem would repeat.

tl;dr - Affinity and Tooth and Nail were both very powerful and popular decks from Day 1; the banning of Skullclamp did little to change that; Affinity was banned because it's overpopulation and consistency killed tournament attendance, even though it was not the "best performing" deck at the time of the Clamp bans or Affinity bans.

Nov 4, 2010 -- 9:11AM, Niche wrote:

Nov 3, 2010 -- 10:05PM, Razorgore wrote:

It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.



It should be about giving black cards to Niche.

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 05, 2013 - 6:57PM #53
MTGKaioshin
  • Sacrificial Lamb
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 7,490

Jan 4, 2013 -- 10:09PM, MrIndigo wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 10:47AM, Rush_Clasic wrote:

Dec 31, 2012 -- 2:30PM, Stasis_20 wrote:

Then the bans came shortly before 5th Dawn.





 Actually, the skullclamp ban was the June B&R announcement, making it a after Fifth Dawn. So, there were several months where you had both skullclamp and cranial plating....but I don't even know if you needed plating with skullclamp...

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 05, 2013 - 7:24PM #54
Rush_Clasic
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2003
Posts: 12,564
It became banned on the same day 5th Dawn became legal.


Jan 4, 2013 -- 10:09PM, MrIndigo wrote:

Affinity was quite a major deck right from the beginning, it wasn't just a little part of the metagame. Broodstar Affinity (Or Sarnath Affinity, in some circles) was a dominant block force and a Tier 1 deck, along with RW Slide, W/x Control decks, Goblins, Big Red/Anan-Go and to a lesser extent Elves and White Weenie/Soldiers.  Those Affinity decks started to move to Anti-Affinity decks with Furnace Dragons and Seething Songs as a sideboard. At the first block PT (Kobe), Gabriel Nassif took TwelvePost Tooth and Nail to 2nd place, and TwentyUrza became a thing in Standard.


I definitely remember it differently. Broodstar Affinity was showing up, but it was never dominating that I saw, and was much less successful than the other tier 1 decks of the time. The problem with verification is that we don't have any big Standard tournaments at that time to use, at least, none that I could find. Furnace Dragon and 12Post definitely came after Ravager Affinity became dominant, though, all three really becoming decks after Darksteel was released.

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 06, 2013 - 5:16PM #55
MTGKaioshin
  • Sacrificial Lamb
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 7,490

Jan 5, 2013 -- 7:24PM, Rush_Clasic wrote:

It became banned on the same day 5th Dawn became legal.


Jan 4, 2013 -- 10:09PM, MrIndigo wrote:

Affinity was quite a major deck right from the beginning, it wasn't just a little part of the metagame. Broodstar Affinity (Or Sarnath Affinity, in some circles) was a dominant block force and a Tier 1 deck, along with RW Slide, W/x Control decks, Goblins, Big Red/Anan-Go and to a lesser extent Elves and White Weenie/Soldiers.  Those Affinity decks started to move to Anti-Affinity decks with Furnace Dragons and Seething Songs as a sideboard. At the first block PT (Kobe), Gabriel Nassif took TwelvePost Tooth and Nail to 2nd place, and TwentyUrza became a thing in Standard.


I definitely remember it differently. Broodstar Affinity was showing up, but it was never dominating that I saw, and was much less successful than the other tier 1 decks of the time. The problem with verification is that we don't have any big Standard tournaments at that time to use, at least, none that I could find. Furnace Dragon and 12Post definitely came after Ravager Affinity became dominant, though, all three really becoming decks after Darksteel was released.


I mean, affinity did get 2nd at Worlds with only mirrodin being legal.  I'm not even sure if that was a broodstar version though...

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2013 - 3:14PM #56
Alias402
Date Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 794

Dec 22, 2012 -- 11:46AM, Dilleux_Lepaire wrote:


people got bored of playing the same deck over and over again.




Nothing has changed in t2.

Decks I playSpoiler: Show

Legacy TezzFinity
Legacy Burn
Modern Infect(need to break it)

T2-dead

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Jul 9, 2012 -- 7:22PM, CadaverousBl00m wrote:


Yes, but DOES HE PEE COLOURLESS MANA?


Jun 1, 2013 -- 2:39PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:

Jun 1, 2013 -- 2:32PM, EyeballFrog wrote:

Serra Angel
Serra Sphinx
Serra Spider

Though Vigilance is a poor fit for red, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serra Dragon.  I could see Serra Demon, though.

Black Serra creature would have vigilance and fear. It would basically be Batman.

[//sblock]

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2013 - 7:51PM #57
MrIndigo
  • Mr. Indigo
Date Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 13,429
There was no Worlds with Mirrodin legal but not Darksteel and 5th Dawn. Aeo Paquette got 2nd with Mox Affinity against Julien Nujiten's GW Astral Slide in 2004, 2003 was Daniel Zink winning with Mirari's Wake as I recall.

Nov 4, 2010 -- 9:11AM, Niche wrote:

Nov 3, 2010 -- 10:05PM, Razorgore wrote:

It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.



It should be about giving black cards to Niche.

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 11, 2013 - 5:06PM #58
StoicChampion
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 1,374
Felt like receiving a Master's Degree in Magic without having put in any work at all, or being privileged and given a fast sports car at the age of 16.

You put together a deck that basically built itself, plopped cards on the table and people were amazed at your "ingenuity". Of course the novelty wore off quick and lasted maybe 3 weeks. Most of the cards were banned, and then people started running null rods in their sideboard (I'm talking about what would have been referred to as Type 1.5 then, not Type 2).

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