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7 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:11PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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if you control Infinite Reflection  on your Lord of Atlantis  and a Clone  enters the battlefield can it copy another creature or will Infinite Reflection override it in any case?
proud member of the 2011 community team
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7 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:15PM
#2
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It will be a Lord of Atlantis in any case.
You can apply Clone first and Infinite Reflection second, so it will be a Lord of Atlantis. You can apply Infinite Reflection first, but then the Clone effect does not apply, so it will be a Lord of Atlantis.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:16PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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right, if IR applies first it's no longer a clone
I was overthinking it
proud member of the 2011 community team
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7 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 12:17PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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Infinite reflection's effect will effectively override clone's effect. As the creature enters the battlefield, two effects (clone, and infinite reflection) are trying to alter what happens. The creature's controller picks one of the effects to apply and applies it. If you apply infinite reflection first, clone is no longer applicable, and you don't do anything else. If you apply clone first, infinite reflection is still applicable, so you apply it too and overwrite whatever you chose to copy with clone. 5/1/2012 If a creature such as Clone is entering the battlefield under your control, there will be two copy effects to apply: the creature's own and Infinite Reflection's. No matter what order these effects are applied, the creature will be a copy of the enchanted creature when it enters the battlefield.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 9:41PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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I was overthinking it
I wouldn't call it overthinking; this is a very complex interaction.
Sure, today, most of us know the trick and Cyphern makes it nice & easy. But when it was brand new, the struggle around that idea was fierce.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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7 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:13AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2012
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What about other ETB effects. Reflection is on LoA, but then I cast an Archaeomancer  < /a>  < /span>  , if I put Reflection's trigger first, then Arch's, can I still return an instant to my hand before it becomes another LoA. Now that I think about it... does it even matter what order it goes on the stack? How about anthroplasm  . From what I can tell, it has no ETB trigger, it just gets 2 counters. So would it keep those when it becomes another LoA?
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7 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 11:29AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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What about other ETB effects.
LoA doesn't have any
Reflection is on LoA, but then I cast an Archaeomancer < /a> < /span> , if I put Reflection's trigger first, then Arch's, can I still return an instant to my hand before it becomes another LoA.
no, it enters as an LoA, the trigger only happens when Reflections initially enters after that it changes new nontoken creatures with a replacement effect
How about anthroplasm . From what I can tell, it has no ETB trigger, it just gets 2 counters. So would it keep those when it becomes another LoA?
no, it won't have that ability after Reflections applies to it, there's a rule that forces copy effects to apply before most other replacement effects
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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7 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 12:01PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2012
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Got it. I was thinking the Reflection and Clone wordings were based on ETB effects. But they really take effect before entering the battlefield.
I was reading it "when a creature ETB, it then becomes...." as opposed to "It enters as a...."
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