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if you control Infinite Reflection on your Lord of Atlantis and a Clone enters the battlefield

can it copy another creature or will Infinite Reflection override it in any case?

It will be a Lord of Atlantis in any case.

You can apply Clone first and Infinite Reflection second, so it will be a Lord of Atlantis. You can apply Infinite Reflection first, but then the Clone effect does not apply, so it will be a Lord of Atlantis.

right, if IR applies first it's no longer a clone

I was overthinking it

Infinite reflection's effect will effectively override clone's effect.

As the creature enters the battlefield, two effects (clone, and infinite reflection) are trying to alter what happens. The creature's controller picks one of the effects to apply and applies it. If you apply infinite reflection first, clone is no longer applicable, and you don't do anything else. If you apply clone first, infinite reflection is still applicable, so you apply it too and overwrite whatever you chose to copy with clone.

5/1/2012 If a creature such as Clone is entering the battlefield under your control, there will be two copy effects to apply: the creature's own and Infinite Reflection's. No matter what order these effects are applied, the creature will be a copy of the enchanted creature when it enters the battlefield.

Dec 13, 2012 -- 12:16PM, Enigma256 wrote:

I was overthinking it

I wouldn't call it overthinking; this is a very complex interaction.
Sure, today, most of us know the trick and Cyphern makes it nice & easy. But when it was brand new, the struggle around that idea was fierce.

What about other ETB effects.

Reflection is on LoA, but then I cast an Archaeomancer < /a> < /span> , if I put Reflection's trigger first, then Arch's, can I still return an instant to my hand before it becomes another LoA.
Now that I think about it... does it even matter what order it goes on the stack?


How about anthroplasm .  From what I can tell, it has no ETB trigger, it just gets 2 counters.  So would it keep those when it becomes another LoA?

Dec 14, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Coredump00 wrote:

What about other ETB effects.

LoA doesn't have any

Dec 14, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Coredump00 wrote:

Reflection is on LoA, but then I cast an Archaeomancer < /a> < /span> , if I put Reflection's trigger first, then Arch's, can I still return an instant to my hand before it becomes another LoA.

no, it enters as an LoA, the trigger only happens when Reflections initially enters after that it changes new nontoken creatures with a replacement effect

Dec 14, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Coredump00 wrote:

How about anthroplasm .  From what I can tell, it has no ETB trigger, it just gets 2 counters.  So would it keep those when it becomes another LoA?

no, it won't have that ability after Reflections applies to it, there's a rule that forces copy effects to apply before most other replacement effects

Got it.  I was thinking the Reflection and Clone wordings were based on ETB effects. But they really take effect before entering the battlefield.
I was reading it "when a creature ETB, it then becomes...."  as opposed to "It enters as a...."