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Flag CandyWife20 December 12, 2012 7:54 PM PST
My opponent has a Palace Guard enchanted with Spirit Mantle . I am attacking with five 3/3 golems that have trample. How would damage be calculated?
Flag Enigma256 December 12, 2012 7:56 PM PST
you have to assign at least lethal damage before you can trample over

so golem1 assigns 3 damage to the guard, golem2 assigns 2 damage to the guard and 1 to the player, golem3 assigns 3 damage to the player

you can of course less damage to the player if you want to, but this should be ideal in most cases

you can also split it up further, for example have golem1 deal 1 damage to the guard and 2 to the player, golem 2 and 3 each 2 to the guard and 1 to the player
the end result is usually the same, but not always
Flag Kenjiblade December 12, 2012 7:58 PM PST
Regardless of Palace Guard 's ability to block multiple creatures, and its protection from creatures, its toughness will still only be 5 (its printed value plus the bonus from Spirit Mantle ).

When assigning lethal damage, damage prevention is not taken into account.  As such, you only have to assign 5 damage (since that would be considered lethal) to the opposing Palace Guard before the remaining damage can be assigned to your opponent directly.

So, one Golem will assign its full 3 damage and another Golem will assign 2 of its damage, all to the Guard.  All remaining damage can then be assigned to the defending player. 
Flag midlight December 12, 2012 9:23 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 7:58PM, Kenjiblade wrote:


When assigning lethal damage, damage prevention is not taken into account.  As such, you only have to assign 5 damage (since that would be considered lethal) to the opposing Palace Guard before the remaining damage can be assigned to your opponent directly.

So, one Golem will assign its full 3 damage and another Golem will assign 2 of its damage, all to the Guard.  All remaining damage can then be assigned to the defending player. 




correction the golems cant assign damage to the Palace Guard because it has Spirit Mantle enchanting it wich prevents the damage from being done thus the golems have failed to meet the requirments for trample and cant assign any damage to the defending player.


never forget the debt
For "Protection from X" what you have to remember is DEBT:
D - Can't be Damaged by X,
E - Can't be Enchanted by X,
B - Can't be Blocked by X,
T - Can't be Targetted by X,
SO if your creature has protection from creatures, and it blocks your opponents creature, then it will take no damage
 

Flag Enigma256 December 12, 2012 9:25 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:23PM, midlight wrote:

correction the golems cant assign damage to the Palace Guard because it has Spirit Mantle enchanting it wich prevents the damage from being done thus the golems have failed to meet the requirments for trample and cant assign any damage to the defending player.


never forget the debt
For "Protection from X" what you have to remember is DEBT:
D - Can't be Damaged by X,
E - Can't be Enchanted by X,
B - Can't be Blocked by X,
T - Can't be Targetted by X,
SO if your creature has protection from creatures, and it blocks your opponents creature, then it will take no damage
 


protection (and other damage prevention) does not prevent damage being assigned, but damage being dealt

Flag midlight December 12, 2012 9:39 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:25PM, Enigma256 wrote:

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:23PM, midlight wrote:

correction the golems cant assign damage to the Palace Guard because it has Spirit Mantle enchanting it wich prevents the damage from being done thus the golems have failed to meet the requirments for trample and cant assign any damage to the defending player.


never forget the debt
For "Protection from X" what you have to remember is DEBT:
D - Can't be Damaged by X,
E - Can't be Enchanted by X,
B - Can't be Blocked by X,
T - Can't be Targetted by X,
SO if your creature has protection from creatures, and it blocks your opponents creature, then it will take no damage
 


protection (and other damage prevention) does not prevent damage being assigned, but damage being dealt




Creatures with
trample may deal "excess" damage to the defending player if they are blocked by that definition alone the golems power would have to be 6 or greater to deal excess damage since the enchanted creature doesnt take damage and thus its toughness isnt reduced below 5 for it to allow the player to assing the remaining damage to it?

Flag Glimmereyes December 12, 2012 9:44 PM PST

702.18b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking.




Trampling over a creature only cares about assigning, not dealing damage.

Flag RPJesus December 12, 2012 9:48 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:44PM, Glimmereyes wrote:

702.18b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking.




Trampling over a creature only cares about assigning, not dealing damage.



To add to this, "When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on that creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step."

Flag Kenjiblade December 12, 2012 10:02 PM PST

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:39PM, midlight wrote:

...and thus its toughness isnt reduced below 5




Everyone else already explained everything quite well, but this one was almost overlooked.

Damage dealt to creatures marks that damage on them; it doesn't reduce their toughness, unless the damage is being dealt from a source that has infect or wither. 

Flag 2goth4U December 13, 2012 5:38 AM PST
@Midnight: Perhaps, you should limit your answers to what you know is factual because your two responses here show a lack of knowledge of the rules and are inadvertantly spreading misinformation.

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:23PM, midlight wrote:

correction the golems cant assign damage to the Palace Guard because it has Spirit Mantle enchanting it wich prevents the damage from being done thus the golems have failed to meet the requirments for trample and cant assign any damage to the defending player.


this is wrong, trample doesn't care whether the creatures will be damaged, it only cares that enough damage (ie. lethal) has been assigned to them

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:39PM, midlight wrote:

Creatures with trample may deal "excess" damage to the defending player if they are blocked by that definition alone the golems power would have to be 6 or greater to deal excess damage since the enchanted creature doesnt take damage and thus its toughness isnt reduced below 5 for it to allow the player to assing the remaining damage to it?


again wrong, you choose assignments for each creature and trample takes into account assignments made by other creatures simultaneously assigned

edit: fixed 

Flag JaxsonBateman December 13, 2012 7:19 AM PST
Let's just get both relevant rules quotes in here side by side so that there's no question about damage assignment, protection and trample.

702.18b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that’s being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that’s actually dealt. The attacking creature’s controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can’t assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it’s attacking.

Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature’s controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker’s protection ability. The attacking creature’s controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.

Heck, don't even need to quote the damage assignment rules - the trample rule covers it perfectly, and even gives a perfect example.
Flag Coredump00 December 13, 2012 9:22 AM PST

Dec 13, 2012 -- 5:38AM, 2goth4U wrote:

Dec 12, 2012 -- 9:39PM, midlight wrote:

Creatures with trample may deal "excess" damage to the defending player if they are blocked by that definition alone the golems power would have to be 6 or greater to deal excess damage since the enchanted creature doesnt take damage and thus its toughness isnt reduced below 5 for it to allow the player to assing the remaining damage to it?


again wrong, you choose which creature to assign with, then the next and so on and trample takes into account assignments made by other creatures previously assigned




Heck, it even takes into account damage that *will* be assigned in that combat.

Flag Chaikov December 13, 2012 11:59 AM PST

Dec 13, 2012 -- 5:38AM, 2goth4U wrote:

@Midnight: Perhaps, you should limit your answers to what you know is factual because your two responses here show a lack of knowledge of the rules and are inadvertantly spreading misinformation.


Hush hush...
Midlight has but four posts in this whole Forum; we've all made mistakes in our first attemps at responding.
( and we still do! )
Instead, let's congratulate new people coming here who generously provide help.

@Midlight: please feel welcome to post your opinion... but we WILL correct you when you miss the spot!

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