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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:42AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 29, 2010
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If you have a face up Voidmage Apprentice  and you Morph a Vesuvan Shapeshifter  , can you copy the Apprentice and counter a spell? Secondly, if I Clone  a face-up Vesuvan Shapeshifter after it has copied something else (like the apprentice, for example), the Clone gains the triggered ability to turn-face down, yes? If I were to do that, would the clone have the morph of the Shapeshifter or the Apprentice?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:49AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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1) yes, "pickles" did the same thing with Brine Elemental  2) a) yes b) the Apprentice because it looks like the Apprentice, it'd still have the turn facedown trigger too, but it wouldn't trigger while facedown
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:51AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2009
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Both of these are answered in the Gatherer rulings. :-3
If Vesuvan Shapeshifter is turned face up, the process of turning face up includes (optionally) choosing another creature on the battlefield. You'll pay {1}{U} (not the morph cost, if any, of the new creature), then Vesuvan Shapeshifter will turn face up as a copy of that creature, plus the triggered ability it gives itself. It won't turn face up as a Vesuvan Shapeshifter and then change. If the copied creature has a "when this creature is turned face up" ability, it will trigger for Vesuvan Shapeshifter.
If another creature copies Vesuvan Shapeshifter while it's face up, the new creature will become a copy of whatever Vesuvan Shapeshifter is copying and gain the "you may turn this creature face down" ability. It won't gain morph {1}{U}. If that creature is then turned face down, its copy effect will continue and it'll be a face-down version of whatever it's copying. If the creature it's copying has morph, it can be turned face up. If the creature it's copying doesn't have morph, it's stuck face down forever unless some other effect (like Break Open) turns it face up again.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:51AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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From Vesuvan Shapeshifter 's rulings: 9/25/2006 If Vesuvan Shapeshifter is turned face up, the process of turning face up includes (optionally) choosing another creature on the battlefield. You'll pay {1}{U} (not the morph cost, if any, of the new creature), then Vesuvan Shapeshifter will turn face up as a copy of that creature, plus the triggered ability it gives itself. It won't turn face up as a Vesuvan Shapeshifter and then change. If the copied creature has a "when this creature is turned face up" ability, it will trigger for Vesuvan Shapeshifter.
9/25/2006 If another creature copies Vesuvan Shapeshifter while it's face up, the new creature will become a copy of whatever Vesuvan Shapeshifter is copying and gain the "you may turn this creature face down" ability. It won't gain morph {1}{U}. If that creature is then turned face down, its copy effect will continue and it'll be a face-down version of whatever it's copying. If the creature it's copying has morph, it can be turned face up. If the creature it's copying doesn't have morph, it's stuck face down forever unless some other effect (like Break Open) turns it face up again.
[<o>]
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:58AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 29, 2010
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Oh, right. Hmmm....what if I have an Anthem on the field an Morph my Shapeshifter and opt not to copy anything, and then clone it? Then I turn them both face down with Ixidron  . Would the clone then continuously act as a Vesuvan Shapeshifter, or would the Clone copy something and then be able to turn face down but be that thing permanently instead?
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6 months ago ::
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:02PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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The Clone would be a copy of Shapeshifter by its own copy effect.
Once turned facedown, it'd essentially be a facedown Shapeshifter.
When turned faceup, it could copy something using the Shapeshifter copy effect gaining the trigger to turn facedown.
Once turned facedown, it'd lose the Shifter copy effect and revert to what it looks like under its own copy effect, that of a facedown Shapeshifter.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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