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5 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 1:22AM
#131
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2011
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Wow I didn't realise my one little comment would spark a mini debate, soz! All I meant by Born of Flame not having card advantage gaining cards is that it can't draw extra, so once it's topdecking it's in trouble. Nine out of ten (there's that statistic again!) times I lose when playing the deck is because I've been forced to expend all my burn and am topdecking. There are certain cards that just really miff BoF flame off and it's where you notice its lack of draw...the most annoying being Talrand's Evocation  . Having to expend two burns to get rid of one card is horrid, and there are others like that. As for the Chandra's Phoenix  card advantage stuff...yeah...but there are plenty of duels when you never draw it or ones where if you do you have to use all your burn against your opponent's creatures (any of the many aggro decks) rather than their life so it doesn't come back. It's hardly the ultimate form of card advantage, but an amazing card nonetheless. Searing Blaze  is an interesting one as well...when it comes at the right time it's incredible, but often it falls flat. I agree with Chandra's Outrage  and believe it is underrated since a lot of people don't run it in their builds. I don't use the medallions at all anymore, though I did for a -long- time. Anyway let's not derail this tourny thread and turn it into 'Born of Flame Decklist and Strategies V.2'. Bring on the final and enjoy!
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5 months ago ::
Dec 21, 2012 - 4:39AM
#132
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2011
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I'd like to report a win against hubin_at: 2-1
I can get my next game in tonight or tomorrow. Can't wait! Available tonight til 2 am PST, tomorrow at 10 am PMT, tomorrow at 11 pm PST. Steam name is Crackin'{q}Portraits, which I intend to continue to do for the rest of the tourney.
I can probably play it tonight, if not then tomorrow for sure. I'll try to add you on Steam.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 22, 2012 - 7:34PM
#133
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2010
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Sorry drogo, going to be away from the computer til tomorrow. We could try Sunday later in the day PST.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 23, 2012 - 4:19PM
#134
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2010
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Reporting a loss to Drogo, 1-2. They were some great games, yada yada... =P First game was his PK vs my SS - he began the game strong with some hawks and an accorder. I was able to draw both master of the wild hunt  and both creakwood liege  but each one I dropped got removed from the game with journey to nowhere  . Fortunately for me (or so I thought) I drew a pernicious deed  which I fully expected to win the game for me single cardedly, unfortunately I missed a land drop and was stuck at 4 mana on the turn I would have liked to play the deed and pop for 2. I was overrun by the weenie army, vgg #1, Drogo 1 Portraits 0 Second game ended abruptly when a body snatcher glitched and forced us to restart. Second game mkII I stuck with SS, he switched to mill. The build I used of SS is just too slow to get an early effective offense against mill; even with mines feeding me cards, it just meant he got plenty of bounce and control to stop my MotWH and creakwoods from going anywhere. troll ascetic  proved useful midgame vs mill; he's got no way to remove it. I played sloppy this game--there were a number of times I neglected to take advantage of the mana tapping feature--but I was able to snatch victory with a creature mob with 10 or so cards left in the library. Drogo 1 Portraits 1 Third game I foolishly stuck with SS - he used mill. We both wholeheartedly agreed that Drogo was happy to see me play my first forest - I'm confident goblins would have stomped him out decisively. Highlights included a tricky play by drogo that involved attempting to remove a MotWH, baiting me into tapping him for the ability and targeting a 5/5 phantasm and then bouncing one of my wolves, causing his 5/5 to survive the assault. Later I got hit with a traumatize for 15-20 cards then ran into a DOTP vs paper magic issue - I played a yavimaya druid  and would have opted out of fetching a forest due to my dwindling deck. The game forces you to search and then hit cancel for the forest - no way to avoid a shuffle. Drogo was then able to hit me with a reduced archive trap  to my great dismay and outcry. This brought me to 0 or 1 cards and a certain defeat. Drogo was quick to point out that either way he would have hardcasted it next turn leaving my argument moot. =/ Drogo 2 Portraits 1 Drogo's plays were calculated and I feel that both of his builds are likely close to optimized. I came into this knowing that PK was going to be an issue - certainly for goblins and probably 50/50 for SS. For this reason I engineered a build of SS that I felt could effectively handle the rush of creatures, be resilient to the removal in PK and make it to mid/late game where PK would be topdecking 1 and 2 CMC creatures and I'd be busting out wurms. Here's the build:
| "Round 4 build" |
60 Cards. 24 Lands (11 9 ; 4 other). |
| A library for Sepulchral Strength (Golgari) |
| Library code: ((((((((~~B72yFn~~Round 4 build~~2AxniPy~~2AYbc44~~1Ahiya8~~2BEoJ0C~~3AX76cu~~2?HTqGq~~2AF9Z=s~~2AsJCuI~~4?JDdWS~~2?LeSi2~~2=OP1bK~~4AriHbV~~2BT4pvY~~1BhLFOu~~1?qwIl9~~2BYFTtn~~2=qtApp~~1=9OWga~~1=NNVWi~~1?m5O8J~~1A2XD3A~~)))))))) |
| Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>> |
Noteworthy omissions that differntiate this build from my favored SS build include the lack of yavimaya elder  s, regenerators like mortivore  and spiritmonger  and a couple of 5 CMC dudes that are normally nice. The #1 reason for most of these cuts is journey to nowhere --I didn't want him to be able to spend 2 to get rid of something that cost me 3+ CMC. Normally I don't include any of the trolls or the yavimaya dryad, but the trolls would be unremovable and the elders would do their job upon entering play, leaving them a lackluster target for removal. I of course ran 60 cards in hopes of drawing the deeds, maelstrom pulse  and the masters and leiges. In the end, vs PK I think my build was fine in theory but without additional testing I can't say for sure if it would have been better to cut the trolls in favor of the usual 3 to 4 elders - this could have given me some extra card advantage through combat trades. I also shot myself in the foot by not worrying about the matchup against mill for this build. I feel that SS is A tier in this game due to its solid matchups against the rest of the cast. Its creatures are resistant to removal, its small creatures like to trade with aggro decks and provide card advantage, and its got the best suite of removal and sweepers in the game bar none. Goblins is easy A tier as well, but has more inconsistent matchups. Some decks get ruined 9-1 whereas others like PK or chandra will cause it to run out of steam. I feel that my strategy was solid choosing SS in the last round--I had expected drogo to swap back to his winning PK rather than sticking to the losing mill. Throughout the tournament I had a final record of 5-2 which I'm somewhat pleased with, considering I got a bye (buy? by??) first round. MVPs of the tourney include voracious dragon  and gempalm incinerator  on the goblin side, and pernicious deed , oracle of mul daya  and master of the wild hunt in SS -- all these cards are consistent performers, always doing work when they hit the table. I will consider removing creakwood liege future games as its benefits are suspect. Probably 80% of the time the liege gets either removed or sits there for two turns before it starts to feel useful in the slightest. GGs all, thanks to wizards sean for organizing this and for the GGs. I don't know if we've tried this before but a tourney with a "pick one and done" format where we all PMed you our decks, they were kept secret and we had to stick with the same deck the whole tourney would be interesting. I feel in that format SS would be upper S god tier status.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 23, 2012 - 4:41PM
#135
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2012
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Later I got hit with a traumatize for 15-20 cards then ran into a DOTP vs paper magic issue - I played a Yavimaya Dryad  and would have opted out of fetching a forest due to my dwindling deck. The game forces you to search and then hit cancel for the forest - no way to avoid a shuffle. Drogo was then able to hit me with a reduced Archive Trap  to my great dismay and outcry.
The "may" is sadly not an option in duels of the planeswalkers. Many times I've had that trap do a number on my deck when I didn't want to search the deck with OD using shades. Good job Drogo and good luck in the finals. Also Kupo_Trooper aka the champ from !Flush's 1v1 tournament, this will be good. Have fun guys, maye the "luck, skill, calculated play, strategic moves and everything else" factor in to the last game.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 23, 2012 - 4:43PM
#136
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2010
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Later I got hit with a traumatize for 15-20 cards then ran into a DOTP vs paper magic issue - I played a Yavimaya Dryad and would have opted out of fetching a forest due to my dwindling deck. The game forces you to search and then hit cancel for the forest - no way to avoid a shuffle. Drogo was then able to hit me with a reduced Archive Trap to my great dismay and outcry.
The "may" is sadly not an option in duels of the planeswalkers. Many times I've had that trap do a number on my deck when I didn't want to search the deck with OD using shades. Good job Drogo and good luck in the finals. Also Kupo_Trooper aka the champ from !Flush's 1v1 tournament, this will be good. Have fun guys, maye the "luck, skill, calculated play, strategic moves and everything else" factor in to the last game.
Have fun guys, maye the "luck, skill, calculated play, strategic moves and everything else" factor in to the last game.
 You guys should try to capture and youtube the finals.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 23, 2012 - 5:08PM
#137
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2011
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Reporting a loss to Drogo, 1-2. They were some great games, yada yada... =P
Third game I foolishly stuck with SS - he used mill. We both wholeheartedly agreed that Drogo was happy to see me play my first forest - I'm confident goblins would have stomped him out decisively. Highlights included a tricky play by drogo that involved attempting to remove a MotWH, baiting me into tapping him for the ability and targeting a 5/5 phantasm and then bouncing one of my wolves, causing his 5/5 to survive the assault. Later I got hit with a traumatize for 15-20 cards then ran into a DOTP vs paper magic issue - I played a yavimaya druid and would have opted out of fetching a forest due to my dwindling deck. The game forces you to search and then hit cancel for the forest - no way to avoid a shuffle. Drogo was then able to hit me with a reduced archive trap to my great dismay and outcry. This brought me to 0 or 1 cards and a certain defeat. Drogo was quick to point out that either way he would have hardcasted it next turn leaving my argument moot. =/ Drogo 2 Portraits 1
Drogo's plays were calculated and I feel that both of his builds are likely close to optimized. I came into this knowing that PK was going to be an issue - certainly for goblins and probably 50/50 for SS. For this reason I engineered a build of SS that I felt could effectively handle the rush of creatures, be resilient to the removal in PK and make it to mid/late game where PK would be topdecking 1 and 2 CMC creatures and I'd be busting out wurms. ..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Goblins is easy A tier as well, but has more inconsistent matchups. Some decks get ruined 9-1 whereas others like PK or chandra will cause it to run out of steam. I feel that my strategy was solid choosing SS in the last round--I had expected drogo to swap back to his winning PK rather than sticking to the losing mill.
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They were good games, they were all close.
My thoughts going in on his GG, SS vs. my DP, PK.
I have only one match up that I really felt favoured me, DP vs SS. PK isn't terrible against anything but against SS it isn't great and if he builds with PK in mind I feel he can make it a solid 60/40 in his favour, maybe even a little higher. The problem is GG vs. DP is just hopelessly lopsided. I felt like he would play GG for sure since it was fine against PK and crushed DP. That meant that I absolutely had to play PK just to not get smashed by GG. I built my PK entirely to deal with goblins which of course makes it a fair bit weaker against SS but I didn't think I had a choice.
Game 1, he goes with SS and I thought I was really in trouble. I had an ok hand but I knew a Deed would completely trash me. I managed with a couple journeys to punch jusssst enough damage through that when the deed went off the 1/1 spirit token flyer from a traveller was enough to get me the win. If he hadn't missed his land drop he wins easy.
I decided to take a chance and go DP game 2 since he had played SS game 1. Was very happy to see forest come down but I couldn't quite outrace him. The troll was huge for him as I couldn't do anything about it. Had him very low on cards but died to a lot of fat.
Game 3 I again risk Jace. I was hoping he would assume I had to go back to PK out of fear of goblins. Again felt relief when he laid a forest. Just managed to mill him the turn before I ate about 20 damage all at once. I did get the free archive trap that from the enforced "may" but I was going to be able to hard cast it anyway so I still had that game. Glad that it didn't make a difference.
Very good games, almost every game I've had with every opponent has been close.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 24, 2012 - 1:09AM
#138
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2011
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Well done guys and congratulations Drogo! I will try and Fraps the final for people to watch, hopefully it's working better than when I last tried in Flush's tourny.
When will you next be available Drogo? I'll be on Steam on and off today, so if you see me just feel free to grab me.
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5 months ago ::
Dec 24, 2012 - 6:15AM
#139
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2011
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Well done guys and congratulations Drogo! I will try and Fraps the final for people to watch, hopefully it's working better than when I last tried in Flush's tourny.
When will you next be available Drogo? I'll be on Steam on and off today, so if you see me just feel free to grab me.
I'll be around sporadically today but we should be able to get it done. I'll look for you on steam, just message me if you see me (although my kids use my computer so if you see someone playing anything but MTG there is a reasonable chance it isn't me).
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5 months ago ::
Dec 24, 2012 - 10:07AM
#140
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2011
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Drogo def. Kupo Trooper 2-0.
The decks were his AW, BoF against my PK, DP. There is only one really lopsided match up in there, DP vs AW. I felt that forced him to play Chandra. Accordingly, I chose PK and tried to optimize it against BoF. That meant fewer changes than I thought, I put in Safe Passage which I normally hate but I was hoping it would function as a counterspell for sweepers. I made a couple other minor changes I can't even remember and we were good to go.
Game 1: I had a really nice opening hand. I think it was 3 plains, Vanguard, Anthem, Pacifism, Safe Pasage. A little risky in that there is only one creature but having an Anthem or Honor is a necessity against BoF so I kept it. I ended up drawing into an Accorder Paladin and Raise the Alarm almost immediately so it worked out very well. I swung for some damage, he burned the Vanguard and Pally. I Raise the Alarm and punch some more damage through by Pacifism on a Magma Phoenix. When I swing next turn he bolts his own Phoenix to sweep the board and I passage so that my weenies live and the damage turns lethal with the 3 extra from the phoenix.
Game 2: My opening hand was even better if possible. I think it was Doomed Traveler, Raise the Alarm, 3 plains, Honour, Safe Passage. It turns out not to matter since he is horribly mana screwed and sticks on 2 land for far too long. Always unfortunate to get a non game like that.
I think Kupo may post the videos of the match, game one is at least mildly interesting.
Thanks Kupo and all my opponents for all the ggs. Thanks to 4n0th1n9 and Henwen for helping me test my decks a lot. Thanks Sean for running this, I had a lot of fun.
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