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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 8:24AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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Why are you guys saying that Spoiler:
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the opponent gets to choose the order of your two replacement triggers?
Spoiler:
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They DON'T trigger at all. They aren't triggered abilities. Triggers start with "when", "whenever" or "at". Replacement/Prevention effects come from static abilities (Pyromancer's Swath, Fire Servant) or were set-up by an already-resolved spell or ability (Bandage, Hallow).
Replacement effects and prevention effects change (replace) or cancel (prevent) an event at the moment it is happening; this don't use the stack at all. It's up to the player who is being affected by the event (the player receiving damage) to choose their order, regardless of who controls the effects.
[<o>]
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 10:17AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2007
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Spoiler:
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You control Pyromancer's Swath  and Fire Servant  , and cast Lightning Bolt  on your opponent. How much damage does your opponent take, and why?
I have a vague recollection of magus of the moon  / humility  making lands mountains because...something. So I think the creature effect matters first. So Servant doubles bolt, and then Swath adds two. 8 damage.
All right, now take the same situation, but this time your opponent casts Bandage  (targeting themselves) in response to your Bolt. Now how much damage do they take, and why?
You and your opponent both have replacement effects for the damage. My recollection is that damage prevention happens last. So as above, but then Bandage prevents one, so seven damage.
Next, take the same situation, only instead of casting Bandage , your opponent casts Hallow  on your Bolt. How much life do they gain, and why?
Hallow also prevents the damage, so it happens last. 8 life.
And finally, let's say your opponent cast both Bandage and Hallow (for some reason). Now how much life do they gain, and why?
Ah... Doesn't order matter or something? Whichever one resolved first will take effect earlier. So Bandage, then hallow, Opponent gains seven. Hallow, then bandage, Opponent gains 8.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 11:04AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2008
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How you feel it should work is not the same as how do you think it works.
Real men hold shift. 
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 11:17AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2010
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You control Pyromancer's Swath and Fire Servant , and cast Lightning Bolt on your opponent. How much damage does your opponent take, and why?
Here's what I got...
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I'm no rules guru, but I believe the replacement effects of Pyromancer's Swath and Fire Servant are applied in reverse-time-stamp order. So if Fire Servant entered the battlefield after Pyromancer's Swath, it's ability would be applied first meaning your lightning bolt deals (3x2)+2 = 8 damage to your opponent. If Pyromancer's Swath entered last instead, the bolt would deal (3+2)x2 = 10 damage to your opponent.
On to the next one...
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All right, now take the same situation, but this time your opponent casts Bandage (targeting themselves) in response to your Bolt. Now how much damage do they take, and why?
Again, let's assume Pyromancer's Swath was under your control first. The replacement effects don't take place until damage would actually be delt. So, you target with the bolt, Bandage prevents one of that damage, and replacement effects take place. Then, your bolt deals (2x2)+2 = 6 damage to your opponent.
Another one? Ok...
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Next, take the same situation, only instead of casting Bandage , your opponent casts Hallow on your Bolt. How much life do they gain, and why?
You cast bolt, Hallow prevents the 3 damage and opponent gians 3 life. Replacement effects never occur since all the damage from the bolt has been prevented.
last one...
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And finally, let's say your opponent cast both Bandage and Hallow (for some reason). Now how much life do they gain, and why?
If Hallow is cast in response to Bandage, Hallow prevents the 3 damage from the bolt and opponent gains 3 life. Just as before, no replacement effects occur because you have no source that would deal damage.
If Bandage is allowed to resolve and then Hallow is cast, Hallow prevents the remaining 2 damage your opponent gains 2 life and once again no replacement effects occur.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 12:28PM
#15
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The principle
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The affected player, in this case the player targeted by Lightning Bolt, chooses which one replacement or prevention effect to apply to the upcoming event. The gamestate is then checked for replacement or prevention effects to apply to the modified event description. This continues until there are no applicable replacement or prevention effects. Then the event happens. . Assuming no odd cases, I am going to assume the most favourable result for the player making the choices. Scenario 1
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The Bolted player takes 8 damage by applying Fire Servant then Pyromancer's Swath. Scenario 2
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The Bolted player takes 6 damage by first applying Bandage (2 damage), then Fire Servant (4 damage) then Swath (6 damage). Scenario 3
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The Bolted player gains 10 life. He's now interested in maximising the damage the Bolt would do, because what Hallow does is dependent on what the Bolt would do at the moment the Hallow is applied.
So, first apply the Swath (5 damage) then the Fire Servant (10 damage) then Hallow (prevent 10 damage and gain 10 life.) Scenario 4
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The Bolted player takes 10 damage as Scenario 3 above. Bandage's effect is never applied. Applying it before the Hallow would reduce the amount of damage the Hallow prevents. After Hallow is applied, there is no damage to prevent.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 12:31PM
#16
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Interesting results so far. I wasn't sure what kind of answers this question would get, so it's nice to see I didn't pick something way too simple. 
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 12:34PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
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Spoiler:
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1) "Swath, Servant, Bolt"
You choose how the replacement effects are applied to the Lightning Bolt 's damage event. So, it could deal 10 if you choose to replace first with Swath then with Servant, or 8 if you do the opposite. This is an informed answer having dealt way too much with replacement effects in YMTC.
2) "+ Bandage"
And now I'm forgetting how things interact with other player's prevention mechanics. *foot in moouth* What I think and feel happens is the same above, but with 1 damage prevented. I think the replacements are applied in APNAP order.
3) "+ Hallow"
Using the same APNAP reasoning as in question 2, and using the same replacement method as in question 1, the opponent would gain 8 or 10 life, your choice.
4) "+ Bandage AND Hallow"
Dammit, zammm! You'd do the setup as in question 1. If you went the 8 route, the opponent could gain 7 or 8, the latter if they apply Hallow first. If you went the 10 route, the opponent could gain 9 or 10, the latter if they apply Hallow first.
I'm VERY confident on question 1. Less so on everything that comes after.
EDIT: Apparently I'm just absolutely wrong. The correct answer doesn't FEEL right at all.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 12:42PM
#18
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Dammit, zammm!
Is it wrong that I get a little thrill of happiness every time I get a reaction like this to one of these threads? 
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 12:56PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
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Dammit, zammm!
Is it wrong that I get a little thrill of happiness every time I get a reaction like this to one of these threads?
Perfectly healthy, I'd say! I just can't believe I misremembered the applications so wrong! It doesn't feel intuitive, but I bet given enough thought it makes sense.
Maybe.
Ugh.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 1:15PM
#20
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Rush your sig is hell of out of date, I'd say.
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