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7 months ago ::
Nov 12, 2012 - 2:09AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Apr 30, 2012
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When explaining the rules of MTG to new players, I feel that the turn structure nomenclature (turns, phases, steps) can be a little bit awkward because of the branching multiplicity of components (a turn is made of many phases; each the upkeep phase has multiple steps - and there are things to do within each step, such as check for triggers then draw a card... etc). I am not proposing any changes to the game itself - but what if the rules could be cut short by avoiding a lot of this nomenclature? What if the official rules said something like this: === A game of Magic consists of a series of turns. During each turn, one player is the active player [then explain the turn order stuff etc...] - One turn consists of eight "scripted actions", which are listed in bold.
- Interspersed between the scripted actions, there are "scripted trigger checks", which are listed in italics. Check the battlefield, graveyard and your hand for the listed phrase, and place the effect on the stack if found (active player first). Triggers which are not related to parts of a turn ("enters the battlefield" etc...) are not listed here - they are placed on the stack when the relevant event occurs. - Any time you encounter three astericks, "***", both players are permitted to perform instant-speed actions (active player begins with priority). Move on to the next item once the stack is empty and all players pass priority. Active player handles Phasing and then untaps
"At the beginning of your upkeep"
***
Active player draws a card
"At the beginning of your draw step"
***
"At the beginning of your [precombat] main phase"
***
(A) Active player either skips to (B), or performs ONE sorcery-speed action
***
Go To (A)
(B) "At the beginning of combat"
***
Declare attackers [Combat begins]
"When this creature attacks"
***
Declare blockers, attacker declares assignment order, defender
declares assignment order
"When this creature blocks"
***
Attackers assign and resolve damage, defenders assign and resolve damage
"When this creature deals combat damage"
***
"At end of combat"
*** [Combat ends]
"At the beginning of your [postcombat] main phase"
***
(C) Active player either skips to (D), or performs ONE sorcery-speed action
***
Go to (C)
(D) "Beginning of the next end step"
***
Discard, then remove damage [Turn ends]
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7 months ago ::
Nov 12, 2012 - 2:54AM
#2
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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That sounds more confusing, not less. Also, triggered abilities don't always follow the exact wording you listed. For example, there's: At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep  At the beginning of each player's upkeep  At the beginning of each upkeep  At the beginning of enchanted player's first upkeep each turn  At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep  At the beginning of the next turn's upkeep  At the beginning of your upkeep  If "upkeep" is the name of a step, all of these make sense. If there isn't an upkeep step and there's just a rule that says "if the triggered ability looks like this, it triggers at this point in the turn", it doesn't make sense, and you wouldn't be able to treat all the above correctly. Also, there are a lot of effects that cause players to skip  some step/phase or to get an additional step/phase. Right now, these work. If the concept of steps and phases was abolished, they wouldn't.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 12, 2012 - 6:42AM
#3
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Also, your proposal limits players to two non-instant-speed actions per turn, one per "main phase". I don't think players would like not being able to play a land, cast a creature with haste, and attack in the same turn, let alone cast two spells precombat.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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7 months ago ::
Nov 12, 2012 - 8:45AM
#4
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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Actually, that's what the "Go to (A)" is for. There's one sorcery-timing action, then a chance for instant-timing actions, then you go back to the chance for one sorcery-timing action. So you'd still be able to do multiple sorcery-timing actions per what-is-currently-the-main-phase.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 12, 2012 - 5:23PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 30, 2012
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The rules, if worded this way, would have to account for all triggers that include "at the beginning of ... upkeep".
To account for effects that create an additional main phase, the rules would have to specify the subset of items in that list that constitute the "main phase", or the "combat phase". I can see now that these "additional phases" effects are probably why Wizards originally created the concept of a phase.
Fibonacci
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7 months ago ::
Nov 13, 2012 - 1:25AM
#6
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Actually, that's what the "Go to (A)" is for. There's one sorcery-timing action, then a chance for instant-timing actions, then you go back to the chance for one sorcery-timing action. So you'd still be able to do multiple sorcery-timing actions per what-is-currently-the-main-phase.
Oh, okay. I don't think that was clear at all.
...Or maybe my reading comprehension just wasn't up to snuff yesterday morning. That might be it too.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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7 months ago ::
Nov 13, 2012 - 1:42AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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When explaining the rules of MTG to new players, I feel that the turn structure nomenclature (turns, phases, steps) can be a little bit awkward because of the branching multiplicity of components (a turn is made of many phases; each the upkeep phase has multiple steps - and there are things to do within each step, such as check for triggers then draw a card... etc).
That all makes perfect sense to me, and is used all over the place in real life.
Books are made up of chapters, chapters are made up of pages, pages are made up of lines, lines are made up of words. Days are made up of hours, hours are made up of minutes, minutes are made up of seconds. Meals are made up of courses, courses are made up of mouthfuls.
Theres a lot to remember, sure, but its not confusing - it makes perfect sense.
In reality, players just need to remember:
- "untap, upkeep, draw"
- main phase before combat
- combat phase (we take turns doing our stuff - more advanced players use the different steps for specific actions, but often "before attackers", "before damage" or "after blockers" etc are enough, without mentioning specific steps)
- main phase after combat
- doing stuff when your opponent says they end their turn
Normally knowing the order in which things happen in a turn is enough.
EDIT: I also wanted to say that your suggestion sounded terrible... but I couldnt force myself past the first paragraph. Sorry. 
~ Tim
 Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise  in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch  . YAY COLOR IDENTITY 
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 13, 2012 - 9:06AM
#8
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lots of things are confusing at first. And while I think having an algorithm for how a turn goes is great, changing the nomenclature of turn phase step isn't necessary.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 15, 2012 - 5:51AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2004
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The question is not whether the Turn-Phase-Step hierarchy is confusing/intimidating for new players, but whether the proposed change is any better - particularly once you finish adding in clauses to catch the various special cases - like cards that skip phases.
Personally, I find it easier to learn a long list of things when they're divided into named chunks than when they're just listed out.
The names of the steps and phases generally make sense - I don't think I've ever known someone who has trouble remembering when the Beginning Phase happens - and anyone who has trouble remembering when the Untap Step is and what happens during it also has trouble remembering when to untap their stuff...
I think the underlying problem is that there is quite a lot going on in a Magic turn, so any way of expressing it would get confusing and/or intimidating. There is no magic bullet for that.
M:tG Rules Advisor
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7 months ago ::
Nov 15, 2012 - 6:23AM
#10
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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Most of the steps and phases are Exactly What it Says on the Tin, but I think a case could be made that the upkeep step is poorly named. Originally, it was primarily used for upkeep costs (e.g. Lord of the Pit  , Force of Nature  , Phantasmal Forces  ). For a long time, however, it's instead just been "the step in which once-per-turn triggers happen".
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