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So I was playing legacy for fun the other day (I normally play standard), and I dropped a turn 1 wild nacatl.  COUNTERED.

I hate how blue can counter everything for free, it's just unfair to every other color.  So, I think the only way to balance the meta is to ban force of will. 

Wrong.

Trust me, I used to think the same way . . . until I lost to the following sequence on Turn 1 on the draw.

1. Lion's Eye Diamond
2. Elvish Spirit Guide.
3. Tinder Wall
4. Pyretic Ritual
5. Seething Song
6. Goblin Charbelcher.

If anything, I'd rather have Lotus Petal and/or the Spirit Guides banned so combo has to go off after turn 1 guaranteed.

Nov 8, 2012 -- 12:23AM, felisdomesticus wrote:

So I was playing legacy for fun the other day (I normally play standard), and I dropped a turn 1 wild nacatl.  COUNTERED.

I hate how blue can counter everything for free, it's just unfair to every other color.  So, I think the only way to balance the meta is to ban force of will. 

You just traded your Nacatl for a FoW, another of their cards and 1 life of your opponent.  Seems like a good deal, provided you had a few other creatures in and, and if you didn't, you probably shouldn't have kept that hand anyway.

But yeah, the format NEEDS Force of Will around, it's part of what helps keep combo in check.  My Zoo deck SBs 4 Mindbreak Trap for a very similar reason.

What Needed to be banned, got banned.  Mental Misstep .  FoW Requires you to have other blue cards to play for free, Misstep just requires you to pay 2 life.  It really would have been everywhere, if for no other reason than for decks to have an answer for the other guy's Misstep.

Force of Will is very much not free.  You have to lose another card and a life to cast it without paying it's mana.  Be happy.  A bad blue player traded 2-for-1 for your crappy green creature.

The fact of the matter is that without Force of Will in Legacy, no deck other than Charbelcher (or Spanish Inquisition) would be playable.  If you aren't winning on turn 1, you'd lose to every other deck in the format that is winning on turn 1.  It wouldn't matter how easily disrupted the combo is, since there is no way to interact with it on turn 0.

Guys, he's a troll from General that's moving down the forums looking for a meal.

Last time I heard, Yu-gi-oh was like legacy w/o FoW, why don't you go see?


Anyways, this guy, contrary to his sig, has been calling green bad in standard too.


I'd be thankful for FoW, otherwise, Zoo wouldn't even be a deck (I know you're playing Zoo, because that's the only deck that plays the Nacatl)

Zoo dies to combo decks, hardcore. FoW helps shut those down. So are you gonna complain about a card that makes your zoo relevant? I hope not.

I agree with the OP! Please ban the only card in the format that interacts with my Cheeri0s deck, so that I can go about getting better results at these tournaments.

You guys just want to keep FOW because you all play blue decks. 

Nov 8, 2012 -- 4:43PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

You guys just want to keep FOW because you all play blue decks. 

I just said that I don't. You're pretty bad at this trolling thing. You should talk to hovercraft, Zokorad, and GM_Champion for pointers.

Well, that's your fault for playing the most broken creature ever . . . seriously, Nacatl should be banned not FOW.

LOL.
I think Griselbrand or Delver are more likely to get banned than Nacatl - but anyways....

 

Nov 8, 2012 -- 12:23AM, felisdomesticus wrote:

So I was playing legacy for fun the other day (I normally play standard), and I dropped a turn 1 wild nacatl.  COUNTERED.

I agree with posts above - you're on the winning side of that equation.  

Nov 8, 2012 -- 4:43PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

You guys just want to keep FOW because you all play blue decks. 

I used to think FoW was crap, that it was the reason why blue was the most popular colour, and I hated it.
I don't play it myself.
 
After actually playing a variety of Legacy decks in proxy, as well as what I already have, I've come around.
You need some format-wide way to constrict the super-fast decks, and as unfair as FoW can be, the format needs a policeman.

I still hate it - and whilst I think  Daze is fair, and FoW unfair - it has to be part of the format. 

I think the people who are compalining about stuff in this thread should try Modern. No FoW, no Nacatal, 

*facepalm* Y'all haven't heard of counter-trolling haven't you? Of course Nacatl isn't broken (and neither is Delver: personally, I'd go for Mongoose or Dreadnought as the best one-drop beat, but still not broken), and neither is Force of Will (though I'd appreciate it if you didn't have to be so heavily blue to run this answer to combo).

Dreadnaught?  That makes you sacrifice all your creatures though, which is pretty bad in my book.

Nov 10, 2012 -- 3:08PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

Dreadnaught?  That makes you sacrifice all your creatures though, which is pretty bad in my book.

Here's my card.

And Dreadnaught and it's enabler.

Nov 10, 2012 -- 3:48PM, EpicLevelCommoner wrote:

Nov 10, 2012 -- 3:08PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

Dreadnaught?  That makes you sacrifice all your creatures though, which is pretty bad in my book.

Here's my card.

And Dreadnaught and it's enabler.

All color enabler . 

Hmm ... interesting ... I'm familiar with the Stiflenought combo, but that ... that looks like something MUD Metalworker would run. Not sure how useful it would be though, but a 12/12 trampler for ain't nothin' to scoff at.

The main problem with sundial is that, unlike stifle, it lacks other utility.  Stifle eating a fetch early-game is a pretty big tempo swing, whereas sundial literally does nothing except enable dreadnaught.

Nov 10, 2012 -- 7:47PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

The main problem with sundial is that, unlike stifle, it lacks other utility.  Stifle eating a fetch early-game is a pretty big tempo swing, whereas sundial literally does nothing except enable dreadnaught.

You know ... it's really hard to get a read on you: whether you're trolling or not that is. First you say something as ridiculous as FoW should be banned, then go on to make this accurate, albeit obvious observation concerning Stifle.

Just in case I jumped to conclusions . . . look up any combo list, whether it be Hypergenesis, OmniTell, SneakShow, ANT Storm, Charbelcher, Reanimator, High Tide, etc., goldfish with it via proxies, and ask yourself: "how soon would my luck run out if the competition was only combo?"

Sundial has plenty of other uses, all of which play well with Stifle.

Pact of Negation, Final Fortune, Smokestack. I had an entire deck that used Sundial and Stifles this way. Nobody expected infinite turns on turn two, and NOBODY let Sundial resolve game 2.

Nov 10, 2012 -- 8:23PM, SereneChaos wrote:

Nobody expected infinite turns on turn two, and NOBODY let Sundial resolve game 2.

So what you're saying is that NO ONE EXPECTS THE SUNDIAL COMBO?

Nov 13, 2012 -- 11:21PM, Renasce wrote:

Nov 10, 2012 -- 8:23PM, SereneChaos wrote:

Nobody expected infinite turns on turn two, and NOBODY let Sundial resolve game 2.

So what you're saying is that NO ONE EXPECTS THE SUNDIAL COMBO?

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as Surprise, Jank, and Synergy, and we also dress pretty snazzy.

We possess such vile instruments of beatdown as the squire and the eager cadet !

You know, and this does sound obvious, but it could be Catowner.

You could go more narrow with the dreadnought and play this one .  

Nov 14, 2012 -- 10:09AM, malpheas wrote:

You know, and this does sound obvious, but it could be Catowner. 

I've been thinking the same thing.

Were any of there whDACK FAYDEN.