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6 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 11:35PM
#341
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2006
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Depends on what Mythichs and what commons. If we add Archangel's Light  or Lich's Mirror  , I'm pretty sure it wouldn't improve any decks performance.
Exactly. If we're pants-on-head retarded, and add Mythics that have nothing to do with how the deck operates, sure.
I could go on into derail-land, but essentially there's a lot wrong with saying "Rarity has nothing to do with power". You know, as though Baneslayer Angel  would make an acceptable Common. Summing up your argument by comparing a random Rare with a random Mythic simply doesn't mean anything. I could counter by comparing Primeval Titan  to Craw Wurm  .
I would say the deck pack decks are just bad, though. Take away the promo cards from the decks in the base game and you're still going to have better decks than the deck pack decks. Goblins, burn, Odric, Liliana and Crosswinds, even without promo cards, would destroy any given deck pack deck. Golgari without its promo cards would destroy any deck pack deck too. I think I use 3 or 4 promo cards in any of those decks and if those promo cards weren't available the cards taking their place wouldn't be awful.
And promo cards didn't come close to fixing Mill, although the cards it received were mostly awful to be fair.
At least three of Dream Puppets' promos were worthy adds ( Body Double  , Telemin performance  and Dreamborn Muse  ). And either way, another bad example if you're saying the deck needed more help regardless. So does that mean Dream Puppets, with or without promos, would destroy all the final decks as well?
Again, derail land. 10 promos would help the deck packs a great deal (especially this one, it's freakin' Blue/Black). You'd have to have some fairly particular reasoning for thinking otherwise. Saying the weakest core deck with the worst promos proves otherwise is a really flawed argument.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 11:43PM
#342
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2010
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Weren't there some Beknighted comparisons being made about this deck pre-release? Ha!
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6 months ago ::
Jan 11, 2013 - 11:57PM
#343
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2010
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Orzhov, Simic and Mana Mastery are very competitive, I don't know what you're talking about.
Played a bit more Dimir and it's quite depressing in the current meta. It has no chance whatsoever against Mana Mastery. I won a few games against other decks, but it was always kinda close and they didn't get the most aggressive hands. I miss removal and cheap creatures. It's just embarassing to have so much card draw without any answers in the deck. You can only play a certain amount of spells and when I draw more cards than I can play, I want options that go beyond creature1 and creature2.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 12:02AM
#344
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2012
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At least three of Dream Puppets' promos were worthy adds ( Body Double , Telemin performance and Dreamborn Muse ). And either way, another bad example if you're saying the deck needed more help regardless. So does that mean Dream Puppets, with or without promos, would destroy all the final decks as well?
Again, derail land. 10 promos would help the deck packs a great deal (especially this one, it's freakin' Blue/Black). You'd have to have some fairly particular reasoning for thinking otherwise. Saying the weakest core deck with the worst promos proves otherwise is a really flawed argument.
I never said promo cards wouldn't help the deck pack decks. I've complained in other threads about them not receiving any. All I said is that the decks are worse than the core decks even if they didn't have promo cards. I said this... pretty clearly. I am repeating myself here, but if you removed the promo cards from Goblins, burn, Odric, Liliana, Crosswinds and Golgari they would still be a lot better than any deck pack deck except for Mana Mastery.
Anyway, the only cards of the three you linked that I use is Dreamborn Muse. I use some other promo cards instead, but it's still not enough to make it a good deck. The Mill deck is bad and it definitely needed help. The promo cards it received did not come close to making it a good deck. This is because the promo cards for any given deck are suited for several different builds. It's highly unlikely anybody is going to use all 10 or even half. And since that is the case, 10 promo cards for the deck pack decks would not save them since they're just so full of bad cards. They're not designed well.
The reason the Dimir deck is bad is because it's just a creature heavy deck. You drop your creatures and hope to get through because it has terrible removal/control. This was so painfully obvious from the moment the deck leaked that I was shocked anybody ever said it would be any good. The rest of the deck pack decks are exactly the same; even the w/b deck that people say is good but isn't really. And even if they were somehow good, they'd all still be incredibly boring.
Orzhov, Simic and Mana Mastery are very competitive, I don't know what you're talking about.
I said on the previous page that Mana Mastery is good. I didn't feel like saying "... except Mana Mastery" every time.
Simic is bad, Orzhov is okay. It seems like the only people who actually enjoy playing Orzhov are those who play it in 2HG. It hasn't been all that impressive in 1v1 for me.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 12:11AM
#345
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2010
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Simic is bad, Orzhov is okay.
The only implication I agree with is that Orzhov is slightly better than Simic. There's no way you can justify your assessment of these decks, they're way better than you give them credit for.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 12:56AM
#346
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2012
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Ok, sixty4half, let's keep going. That doesn't matter, I was simply using that to illustrate that I don't like using Enchantments, not to start a debate over AS, or it's amount of hexproof creatures.
And I was simply using that to illustrate that AS can afford to run Enchantments with 7 hexproof creatures. For RG it's risky.
Compare that to Azure Mage?
I compared them because there's one thing they have in common - 4 mana to draw a card. That's why I said it *seems like a nice deal* as in "Helm on a Stalker is obviously better than Azure Mage", becase you pay 4 only once and get to draw a card every turn.
Why do you keep saying "Good luck with that #X."
Because it somewhat depends on luck: you have yet to draw your Helm and have a creature your opponent can't trade (or have an unblockable one) and your opponent have yet to *not* have a removal due to lack of luck/skill.
I'm not even gonna start on enchantment removals when you get to keep your creature but lose a Helm.
So chances with getting through with a Helm on are not that great. And another creature on the board is most of the time better.
Yes the deck needs to be agressive. What is more aggressive than giving your unblockables the ability to do more damage every turn? What's about drawing an extra card every turn doesn't further the aggressive stance this deck takes?
You lose more tempo if Helm+creature gets killed.
If you play another creature and IT gets killed this means other creature you would otherwise put a Helm on survives and can keep on the pressure.
Discard while you're top decking? Last time I checked I could have a creature out on turn 2 or 3 at the lastest. If your top decking by turn 4, you're the one that needs "good luck," not me.
Last time I checked if you cast a Helm by turn 4 your opponent is more likely to have a removal, unless you are playing against a mediocre player which will dump all his removal on first things he sees so you can cast a Helm and it will stay.
RG has only 3 B/U unblockable creatures (one of them costs 5), so you are talking here about only 2 creatures  out of 60 cards (good luck with that #1) that can potentially become 4/4s with the Helm.
2 Inkfathom Infiltrator
2 Dimir Guildmage
2 Dimir Cutpurse
3 times as many as you thought.
Now read again and you will see that I was talking about B/U *unblockable* creatures. So your further math is irrelevant.
Helm is beast on cutpurse/ infiltrator/ guildmage and moroii, but I think if your grimgrin connects for -usually- 7 r first swing or the lord for 4 unblockable, you are so far ahead that the helm is win- more. If you are behind enough to put all your eggs in one basket like that, gl to you!
Ha, I was just about to say that it might be a win-more card...
Is it just me or is Grimgrin somewhat out-of-place in this deck, considering the draw/discard mechanic relies mostly on your creatures? I guess if I run Grimgrin, I really need Necromantic Thirst?
I would not underestimate the ability to sac your own creatures (deny kicked RoR  , Mind Control  , get rid of creatures under pacify-like enchantments) not to mention the potential of surprise blocking and destroying a target creature when attacking.
Sac'ing low cost creatures to kill something bigger seems like a nice deal.
It sux tho when you sac a creature and Grimgrin gets intstakilled =\
...infiltrate is terrible though.
I kinda like Infiltrate  . It helps get say a Cutpurse  through which means you draw a card and make your opponent discard. Or on Ashling  which is even better.
And now about Followed Footsteps  . I like the idea of dropping it on a Baneslayer, but what if there are no creatures with lifelink around. Let's take Terra Stomper for example again. You can't afford to take that much damage every turn. But it can definitely help you get rid of it on the next turn assuming you cast FFSteps right away.
Also it's a slow method to kill a Legendary creature.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 1:50AM
#347
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2010
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Because it somewhat depends on luck: you have yet to draw your Helm and have a creature your opponent can't trade (or have an unblockable one) and your opponent have yet to *not* have a removal due to lack of luck/skill.
I'm not even gonna start on enchantment removals when you get to keep your creature but lose a Helm.
So chances with getting through with a Helm on are not that great. And another creature on the board is most of the time better.
You lose more tempo if Helm+creature gets killed.
If you play another creature and IT gets killed this means other creature you would otherwise put a Helm on survives and can keep on the pressure.
If your creatures can't swing into a blocker, one more creature isn't gonna solve the issue. Since we're assuming that our opponent has removal, you'll be facing the same situation next turn, no matter what creature you play.
A Helm could pump your creature enough to swing, though. Also, the damage is added immediately, so you're gaining tempo until the creature gets removed, whereas playing another creature would only benefit future attacks.
In all my games with this deck, I never encountered a situation, where I couldn't get through with the Helm at least on the turn I played it. At the very least it replaces itself and/or discards them once, while adding 1-2 more damage that turn. That's not a bad deal at all and it only gets better, if they have no removal available next turn.
Infiltrate is pretty inefficient, I prefer the Invisimancer for the same effect on what's basically a Phantom Warrior  , talking about tempo.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 3:24AM
#348
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 3:48AM
#349
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2011
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Deck could have been better with some more counterspells.
Needs some promo codes NAO for all the new decks to be competetive with the old decks.
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6 months ago ::
Jan 12, 2013 - 4:25AM
#350
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2012
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