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For a new campaign mode they should add a points kind of system. You get points for casting spells, pulling off combos, dealing damage, earn multiplyers by winning in a certain amount of turns. Then you buy cards, the more rare the cards the more costly the points. That way, those who want to unlock things can, but those who don't want to spend hours unlocking everything don't have to

Nov 7, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Hi all. Unlike the base Duels 2013 game and the expansion, there currently aren’t any plans to add extra content to the DLC decks outside the base deck lists and their 30 unlockable cards.

Hi Sean,

Can you explain why the design choice was taken to give some decks more cards than others?

Thanks.

Nov 15, 2012 -- 2:17AM, ocal wrote:

For a new campaign mode they should add a points kind of system. You get points for casting spells, pulling off combos, dealing damage, earn multiplyers by winning in a certain amount of turns. Then you buy cards, the more rare the cards the more costly the points. That way, those who want to unlock things can, but those who don't want to spend hours unlocking everything don't have to

I think there should be a full open-story campaign like Shandalar or Battlemage, but no points. Keep it simple: a win unlocks a card no matter the mode (and go back to unlocking multiple copies of any card you unlock).

Nov 15, 2012 -- 5:21AM, Splattercat wrote:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 2:17AM, ocal wrote:

For a new campaign mode they should add a points kind of system. You get points for casting spells, pulling off combos, dealing damage, earn multiplyers by winning in a certain amount of turns. Then you buy cards, the more rare the cards the more costly the points. That way, those who want to unlock things can, but those who don't want to spend hours unlocking everything don't have to

I think there should be a full open-story campaign like Shandalar or Battlemage, but no points. Keep it simple: a win unlocks a card no matter the mode (and go back to unlocking multiple copies of any card you unlock).

They probably went back to the 1 game = 1 unlock system due to the fact that less people bought IAP to unlock their deck. Kinda sad, but fair enough.
Now, I agree that the way the promotion cards were dealt with is... meh.

I can understand promoting paper magic with DOTP, that's fair game. But they should have unlocked all promo cards by default when the first expansion hit, and they should have ensured that all following decks have the same amount of unlocks.
Sure, the first deckpack is fine and playable, but the feeling of having "less cards" to play with is not that great, hence the reason for this (quite) big thread.

10 less cards when you have about ~80 cards to create your deck does limit options quite a bit.

Now that I remember, Aranthys is right.  I sometimes forget people just up and buy unlocks for packs.  They have no incentive to make Campaign cool due to losing money on buying packs.  Hopefully they do it anyway though.

Best campaign in a card game: Etherlords II. I really loved this game.

I wish they make a campaign for Duels 2014 something like Etherlords II.

I never played the Micropose version of MTG, but a campaign mode like that would be awesome

Say if you were playing a Vampire deck that starts Black, you could planeswalk to Innistrad, fight Olivia Voldaren and her crew, and earn yourself a splash of red for stuff like Vampiric Fury , Markov Blademaster , Stromkirk Captain , et al

We can but dream....

Nov 15, 2012 -- 5:20AM, Grandmaster_G wrote:

Nov 7, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Hi all. Unlike the base Duels 2013 game and the expansion, there currently aren’t any plans to add extra content to the DLC decks outside the base deck lists and their 30 unlockable cards.

Hi Sean,

Can you explain why the design choice was taken to give some decks more cards than others?

Thanks.

Sean,

Please can you respond to this question?

Thanks.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 2:29AM, Grandmaster_G wrote:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 5:20AM, Grandmaster_G wrote:

Nov 7, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Hi all. Unlike the base Duels 2013 game and the expansion, there currently aren’t any plans to add extra content to the DLC decks outside the base deck lists and their 30 unlockable cards.

Hi Sean,

Can you explain why the design choice was taken to give some decks more cards than others?

Thanks.

Sean,

Please can you respond to this question?

Thanks.

For what it's worth, I sent him a PM relating to the subject four days ago. He reportedly gets a notification whe he receives a PM. I've yet to hear back from him.

I'm not getting any responses at the moment either. 

I dont think we'll be getting extra cards becasue none of this stuff is real "DLC". What most likely happened is all these deck packs were done before the game came out or shortly thereafter. They probably dont have the time and or money to go back and add cards to each of the deck packs. I also find it funny that when we start asking real questions we get nothing but silence.

It seems to me that this sean fellow is nothing more than a PR mouth piece.

People are too harsh towards Wizards_Sean.  Personally, if I was in his position, I'd ignore every little whiney PM about something not being fair as well.  It is what it is, most of us have moved on by this point.  Bad decision on wizards part to not make equal cards in all decks?  Sure is.  Is it time to get over it? Sure is.  Is Sean going to reply to every little whiney PM?  Maybe he will...I sure wouldn't.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 9:17AM, minddrifter wrote:

People are too harsh towards Wizards_Sean.  Personally, if I was in his position, I'd ignore every little whiney PM about something not being fair as well.  It is what it is, most of us have moved on by this point.  Bad decision on wizards part to not make equal cards in all decks?  Sure is.  Is it time to get over it? Sure is.  Is Sean going to reply to every little whiney PM?  Maybe he will...I sure wouldn't.

I agree with you.

And probably I will buy the other deck packs despite my disappointment ( because I already have the game), but my enthusiasm for the future DOTP is sure dwindling with each mistake.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 9:17AM, minddrifter wrote:

People are too harsh towards Wizards_Sean.  Personally, if I was in his position, I'd ignore every little whiney PM about something not being fair as well.  It is what it is, most of us have moved on by this point.  Bad decision on wizards part to not make equal cards in all decks?  Sure is.  Is it time to get over it? Sure is.  Is Sean going to reply to every little whiney PM?  Maybe he will...I sure wouldn't.

That's fair. I'm assuming since you've come to this conclusion that you know the exact composition of my PM then? You know, the intent behind it, whether you agree with what was said and all that?

Even though I haven't pm'd Sean, I won't go as far as calling it whining.
Let me jog everyone's memory and mine.
Wasn't it a ''twitter blast'' that got WOTC to pay any attention us at all.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 12:56PM, Stevolutionary wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 12:33PM, Splattercat wrote:

That's fair. I'm assuming since you've come to this conclusion that you know the exact composition of my PM then? You know, the intent behind it, whether you agree with what was said and all that?

Going off the vast majority of your posts on the subject (and the fact he didn't think the content was worth a reply), I think we can make a reasonably accurate assesment.

And yet (surprisingly?) Sean has been utterly silent regarding the promo card issue other than to state that there are no plans to add any.  Such finality is certainly not reassuring to this community, especially as Sean is supposed to be our outlet directly to Wizards and Stainless.  If not him, then whom?  To be fair, this was the same question that launched the twitter campaign from this community and resulted in Sean becoming the community manager.

Well, I still haven't bought the deck pack due to MY same reason (hiding key info from us to protect sales), but I was at least hoping to see a sort of explanation. Hell, even a "we'll take your comments into consideration next year" would've led me to reconsider, but now their community liaison has gone missing. Radio silence when things go wrong, just to come back once the heat is down. 

I just don't see myself buying the rest of the 2013 landsliding product: the more I spend on it, the less value I get from it. At least let us know in time! Perhaps I would've late-bought the deck packs even without the promo cards if you had told us in a timely, honest way, but the whole concealment situation has undermined my trust. It was barely rebuilding once the awesome DotP 2013 and expansion came out, and now this.

Oh well, surely DotP 2014 will be a blast!

Sorry about not responding to your respective PMs. The question of "why aren't there more cards?" has been heard, but unfortunately I don't have an answer for you as far as design decisions. At least not right now. If I get one, I'll post it here. I've been passing on feedback like this, and it's clear a good portion of players were bummed about the promotional codes only providing extra cards to the original 10 and 5 expansion decks. I've been passing on a steady stream of community feedback to the design team about it.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 2:45PM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Sorry about not responding to your respective PMs. The question of "why aren't there more cards?" has been heard, but unfortunately I don't have an answer for you as far as design decisions. At least not right now. If I get one, I'll post it here. I've been passing on feedback like this, and it's clear a good portion of players were bummed about the promotional codes only providing extra cards to the original 10 and 5 expansion decks. I've been passing on a steady stream of community feedback to the design team about it.

Not your fault, but thanks for this anyway...why you're here, can I ask what YOU think of the new decks? And if you can confirm the dimir leak? 

The secod question I doubt you can answer anyway, but the first...i'm just curious, since that does appear to be the simic emblem on your avi... 

Nov 20, 2012 -- 12:56PM, Stevolutionary wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 12:33PM, Splattercat wrote:

That's fair. I'm assuming since you've come to this conclusion that you know the exact composition of my PM then? You know, the intent behind it, whether you agree with what was said and all that?

Going off the vast majority of your posts on the subject (and the fact he didn't think the content was worth a reply), I think we can make a reasonably accurate assesment.

Considering you would be completely and utterly incorrect on all counts, I don't think said assessment would be reasonable or accurate.
So there's that...

Nov 20, 2012 -- 2:45PM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Sorry about not responding to your respective PMs. The question of "why aren't there more cards?" has been heard, but unfortunately I don't have an answer for you as far as design decisions. At least not right now. If I get one, I'll post it here. I've been passing on feedback like this, and it's clear a good portion of players were bummed about the promotional codes only providing extra cards to the original 10 and 5 expansion decks. I've been passing on a steady stream of community feedback to the design team about it.

To me, there seems to be a few different groups of people:

1. People that didn't buy the deck pack and won't buy the future deck pack, mostly due to the decks lacking 10 cards that other decks have.
2. People that will buy the deck packs for 2013, just so that way they have all the decks possible. These people may or may not be willing to purchase future DotP games though given the various fiascos regarding community support and design choices (I fit in this group for the record).
3. People that may or may not buy the deck packs, not entirely due to the lack of the 10 cards, but are still looking forward to the 2014 version.


A lot of people are in group 1, and it's not just people on this forum, but on other forums as well. Last year, I strongly defended the concept of deck packs. It's still a good value ($1.50 per deck) and the deck packs were released within a month of each other. I see many people saying they don't want to buy the deck packs due to the lack of 10 cards, and I'm not inclined to try and persuade them otherwise.

The good news, there is a fix for this, but if you want to build a reputation of community support, this needs to be fixed for DotP 2013, and not just a lesson for the design team to learn from and carry forward into DotP 2014. The fix is simple, add 10 cards to each of the deck pack decks, and you can do this all at once by including the cards for each deck in with the final deck pack that is to be released. These cards don't even need to be promo cards, and you don't need fancy unlock codes for them, you could make them just like the normal unlockable cards. To make things simpler, they could just be 10 cards that are already programmed into the game.

I guarantee that if you do this, many complaints about this incident will dissappear. And if you really want to go out of your way to increase community support, get the community involved on the selection of these other 10 cards, either by making topics to collect ideas, or delegate 1 community member to pick the 10 cards for each deck (pending final approval from Wizards/Steam of course), or you delegate 1 person to each different deck.

You forgot a fourth group: People who bought and like the deck packs and are also looking forward to DotP 2014. I'm in this group. All of your options made it seem that everyone was disappointed in the deck packs, sorry if I misunderstood though. I like both of the new decks better than the five expansion decks, even with less cards in them.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 7:35PM, megamaster125 wrote:

Nov 20, 2012 -- 2:45PM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

Sorry about not responding to your respective PMs. The question of "why aren't there more cards?" has been heard, but unfortunately I don't have an answer for you as far as design decisions. At least not right now. If I get one, I'll post it here. I've been passing on feedback like this, and it's clear a good portion of players were bummed about the promotional codes only providing extra cards to the original 10 and 5 expansion decks. I've been passing on a steady stream of community feedback to the design team about it.

To me, there seems to be a few different groups of people:

1. People that didn't buy the deck pack and won't buy the future deck pack, mostly due to the decks lacking 10 cards that other decks have.
2. People that will buy the deck packs for 2013, just so that way they have all the decks possible. These people may or may not be willing to purchase future DotP games though given the various fiascos regarding community support and design choices (I fit in this group for the record).
3. People that may or may not buy the deck packs, not entirely due to the lack of the 10 cards, but are still looking forward to the 2014 version.


A lot of people are in group 1, and it's not just people on this forum, but on other forums as well. Last year, I strongly defended the concept of deck packs. It's still a good value ($1.50 per deck) and the deck packs were released within a month of each other. I see many people saying they don't want to buy the deck packs due to the lack of 10 cards, and I'm not inclined to try and persuade them otherwise.

The good news, there is a fix for this, but if you want to build a reputation of community support, this needs to be fixed for DotP 2013, and not just a lesson for the design team to learn from and carry forward into DotP 2014. The fix is simple, add 10 cards to each of the deck pack decks, and you can do this all at once by including the cards for each deck in with the final deck pack that is to be released. These cards don't even need to be promo cards, and you don't need fancy unlock codes for them, you could make them just like the normal unlockable cards. To make things simpler, they could just be 10 cards that are already programmed into the game.

I guarantee that if you do this, many complaints about this incident will dissappear. And if you really want to go out of your way to increase community support, get the community involved on the selection of these other 10 cards, either by making topics to collect ideas, or delegate 1 community member to pick the 10 cards for each deck (pending final approval from Wizards/Steam of course), or you delegate 1 person to each different deck.

At first, I was gonna say "Come on, stop whining" when reading the first section of your message, because, honestly, the effect of 10 cards missing is far, far from beeing as bad as you make it sound.
But then, I read the second portion, and yes, this, I can agree with : that would be ideal, and a great way to support the community.

@Sean : Thanks for the reply, and please, try to ensure that they understand that we want continuity with the way they're handling the decks : Same "power level" was done perfectly this time, but they kinda screwed up on the decks having the same amount of cards & customizability.

Nov 20, 2012 -- 10:21PM, djAMPnz wrote:

You forgot a fourth group: People who bought and like the deck packs and are also looking forward to DotP 2014. I'm in this group. All of your options made it seem that everyone was disappointed in the deck packs, sorry if I misunderstood though. I like both of the new decks better than the five expansion decks, even with less cards in them.

Well, the third group is people that may or may not have bought the deck pack and are looking forward to 2014. I do enjoy the deck pack we got, but only to a certain extent. The U/G deck is kinda dull to play after a while, because it's mostly just throwing down creatures. Fables can get fun and crazy, but otherwise, it's a pretty straightforward gameplay style. Act of War I've had fun with, especially the more controling build. Both decks I feel do need a little boost though to be on par with the other decks.

You know what? Just for fun, here's the "whiny" PM I sent Sean on Friday:

First off, I'd like to know if you think it's even remotely possible that with enough incentive we could have the devlopers/whatevers of the game to release a special card pack including 10 extra cards for the remaining/forthcoming 6 decks(a la the promos of the other 15 decks). An outcry on these forums had the Serra Ascendant changed, so I'm hoping that with enough support etc. we can have these cards added to the game (with a dollar value attached if necessary).

If that's so, I would like for you to create a thread asking people what cards they want added to these decks. Everyone should contribute, whether they agree with the decks being shorted, whether they want to buy the decks, whether they agree there wshould be cards added, etc. EVERYONE must be encouraged to contribute because if the cards are indeed added, whether people get them/buy them/agree with them, they will most certainly be playing against them.

Everyone should suggest what cards they feel should be in the decks or want to see in the decks, and EVERY card and then the "final" list (which would ultimately be up to the designers should they be involved) should also be critiqued to maintain game balance.

Ultimately the reason for this is that the game was obviously fully tested and the decks balanced prior to release so if developers were to add more cards, they would ostensibly be untested. This community plays the game -- a ton -- and should be qualified to give a decent enough blueprint that the card lists would only need minor tweaks at best to fit into the current meta.

The only caveat is that we only have 2 (3) decklists, so the remaining decks will have to be discussed as their lists are made public. Which, I don't know if you think each deck should have it's own thread or just pile it all into one. It's whatever would be easiest to maintain I suppose. That would be your call....

So...What do you think?

Word for word, copied out of my sent box. Sean can confrim this if he feels so inclined.

As to the obvious question "Why don't you make the thread yourself?", well the secondary reason is that there are those who would make this thread more about the person who made it, rather than the topic itself. Going by what we've seen, I think that's a reasonably accurate assessment (also, I passed this idea by another member of the community 2 weeks ago who can confirm that this was my concern long before now, if he feels so inclined).

The primary reason for asking Sean is simply that more people would contribute and take it seriously if a Wizards Rep made the thread. Surely he would have more credability than anyone else. I don't know if my message was simply filed away, or was victim of a mass deletion or was added to a very long to-get-to list, but I still don't know if this is worth trying or not. I didn't get a response.

So yeah.... There's that as well.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 7:52AM, Splattercat wrote:

You know what? Just for fun, here's the "whiny" PM I sent Sean on Friday:

First off, I'd like to know if you think it's even remotely possible that with enough incentive we could have the devlopers/whatevers of the game to release a special card pack including 10 extra cards for the remaining/forthcoming 6 decks(a la the promos of the other 15 decks). An outcry on these forums had the Serra Ascendant changed, so I'm hoping that with enough support etc. we can have these cards added to the game (with a dollar value attached if necessary).

If that's so, I would like for you to create a thread asking people what cards they want added to these decks. Everyone should contribute, whether they agree with the decks being shorted, whether they want to buy the decks, whether they agree there wshould be cards added, etc. EVERYONE must be encouraged to contribute because if the cards are indeed added, whether people get them/buy them/agree with them, they will most certainly be playing against them.

Everyone should suggest what cards they feel should be in the decks or want to see in the decks, and EVERY card and then the "final" list (which would ultimately be up to the designers should they be involved) should also be critiqued to maintain game balance.

Ultimately the reason for this is that the game was obviously fully tested and the decks balanced prior to release so if developers were to add more cards, they would ostensibly be untested. This community plays the game -- a ton -- and should be qualified to give a decent enough blueprint that the card lists would only need minor tweaks at best to fit into the current meta.

The only caveat is that we only have 2 (3) decklists, so the remaining decks will have to be discussed as their lists are made public. Which, I don't know if you think each deck should have it's own thread or just pile it all into one. It's whatever would be easiest to maintain I suppose. That would be your call....

So...What do you think?

Word for word, copied out of my sent box. Sean can confrim this if he feels so inclined.

As to the obvious question "Why don't you make the thread yourself?", well the secondary reason is that there are those who would make this thread more about the person who made it, rather than the topic itself. Going by what we've seen, I think that's a reasonably accurate assessment (also, I passed this idea by another member of the community 2 weeks ago who can confirm that this was my concern long before now, if he feels so inclined).

The primary reason for asking Sean is simply that more people would contribute and take it seriously if a Wizards Rep made the thread. Surely he would have more credability than anyone else. I don't know if my message was simply filed away, or was victim of a mass deletion or was added to a very long to-get-to list, but I still don't know if this is worth trying or not. I didn't get a response.

So yeah.... There's that as well.

I do appreciate you messaging me, Splattercat. Since you posted your message for everyone, I'd might as well post the reply I intended to send you as I catch up with my direct messages (there is a long Holiday weekend about to start, so again, my apologies if some remain unanswered).

While I have passed on your request for an additional deck pack (which I saw requested by a number of people with the news about the promo cards), I wouldn't want to personally make a thread that would set that expectation for anyone. I know there currently aren't plans to make a deck pack of that nature for Duels 2013, and the last thing I want to do is set a bar for petitions or threads with the promise of a new release at the end when ultimately there are a lot of internal and external factors involved in planning these kinds of things where the Duels team is concerned.

You guys are totally free to discuss what cards you'd like to see in future Duels content. Go ahead and make a thread for it (I personally love reading that kind of speculation, and I always make sure the WotC R&D team gets a link).

 

Am I the only one that doesn't mind that the new decks only have 30 extra cards? Yeah, I thought it was strange when I noticed, and that could have been 10 interesting cards for each of the new decks, but really it just means I have 10 fewer cards that I will not be playing.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:53PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:

Am I the only one that doesn't mind that the new decks only have 30 extra cards? Yeah, I thought it was strange when I noticed, and that could have been 10 interesting cards for each of the new decks, but really it just means I have 10 fewer cards that I will not be playing.

I wouldn't mind so much if the decks were particularly good or fun.  They're extremely mediocre to me, and not nearly as thematic or flavorful as the Expansion decks.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:01PM, DroneOn wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:53PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:

Am I the only one that doesn't mind that the new decks only have 30 extra cards? Yeah, I thought it was strange when I noticed, and that could have been 10 interesting cards for each of the new decks, but really it just means I have 10 fewer cards that I will not be playing.

I wouldn't mind so much if the decks were particularly good or fun.  They're extremely mediocre to me, and not nearly as thematic or flavorful as the Expansion decks.

Act of war isn't too bad, it fit's the red/white theme well. But the U/G deck is really underwhelming for a U/G deck. It maybe a good deck and it might even be powerful, but without proper cancels, effective card draw, ramp or control options it just feels very meh

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:24PM, ocal wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 1:01PM, DroneOn wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:53PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:

Am I the only one that doesn't mind that the new decks only have 30 extra cards? Yeah, I thought it was strange when I noticed, and that could have been 10 interesting cards for each of the new decks, but really it just means I have 10 fewer cards that I will not be playing.

I wouldn't mind so much if the decks were particularly good or fun.  They're extremely mediocre to me, and not nearly as thematic or flavorful as the Expansion decks.

Act of war isn't too bad, it fit's the red/white theme well. But the U/G deck is really underwhelming for a U/G deck. It maybe a good deck and it might even be powerful, but without proper cancels, effective card draw, ramp or control options it just feels very meh

I'm glad that it at least has better tools than the original blue/green deck from 2012 did. The snake theme is kind of interesting... And I really like the red/white deck but it seems like sky and scale is at least a little better.

I'm actually upset because I really want red/white to be good but it seems like it's not. It really feels like kind of a replacement for the Knights deck from 2012 except with a little more removal and way weaker creatures.

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

SaS has quickly become #3 on my list of favorite decks... I just find it fun to play.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

well then im happy that you like thos decks but you are in the minory  and i see that in the game  where almost no  one is playing the new decks  yeah  new and  %90  of the time u don't see the new dlc..

i think that say's it all.      o and belive me im a magic fan almost never conplaying but now im very disapointed of this new mistake  wotc  did...

i now get the strategy  relese the game  one expansion one real update then if something is wronge sorry wait for next year's magic..

and sorry for my broken english.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

Oh you didn't get the memo? Any deck that isn't called Goblin Gangland or Sepulchral Strength is weak, Oh and of course Dream puppets for 2HG. Every other deck is weak sauce! Especially MS with it's inconsistent Insurrection and whatnot.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:12PM, Hakeem928 wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

the fact is  almost no one is playing the new decks..  i think that say's it all..

i been playing  magic  more then halo 4   because i love magic 2013 
but is a shame that the new decks are just not that good at all  u can say  they are but they are not sorry.
i only see people playing  every other deck but  the new  u/g w/r  i see  1 out of  20 games people playig those decks. ...   i bought those decks and i dont see why i should use them they are boring and weak
if you are a fan of underpower deck's feel free to say whatever u want  but the truth is they are not  very good or conplete....

i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

SaS has quickly become #3 on my list of favorite decks... I just find it fun to play.

It's either #3 or #2 on mine too. It's both fun and strong, if you play it right. You can ramp, if you are lucky, but you don't need it to win. You have plenty of draw, token making for days, with bounce thrown in, large creatures, a touch of lifegain, a counter or two that comes with a body and to top it all of, a lot of c o m b a t tricks. Only one of those things I don't run personally is the omnibian, and I just don't have room for him is all...

And I know counting pongify as a combat trick is stretching it, but I needed one for every letter, and I have used it on an oracle enough times to kill a 3 or less toughness creature for it to count... 

I really like both of the decks, they are both easily in my top 5. I don't know why so many people are hating on AoW (does anyone else automatically read AoW as 'Age of Wonders'?). I think it's great because you can control the battlefield. You've got first strike and direct damage to bring the big guys down. Some life gain for survival. You've got pumps , removal , reanimation and plenty of combat tricks . You even have some good finishers .

I also really like the flavour of the two new decks, even more than any of the older decks. The Boros deck has a real feel of amassing an army and using battle tactics. And the Simic deck feels like it's full of reptiles, mutants and other swamp creatures for the Simic to study and experiment on (not swamps like these , but more like the kind when you mix jungles with water ).

Sounds to me that people who like the new decks are NOT in the minority.  I really enjoy both new decks as well and I am doing really well with BOTH new decks.  I think too many people are giving up on these decks too easily.  I was awful with these decks until I started getting a good feel for them and what is really working and what really isn't.  Now I am consistently winning and even my losses tend to be down to a single turn away from a win.

I haven't touched the new decks for a while. I think they're pretty bad, really. Goblins is a better aggro deck than AoW and has better ways to recover from problems (better removal, more reliable card draw). Both the mono green decks are better at ramping than SaS and AW has a much better late game. I just don't see any reason to play the new decks, really.

If I may make a positive post in this thread, Steam has deck pack 1 on sale for half price, for one day.

I don't really LIKE Act of War, but I still play it, equally with eveyrthing else.  And from what I've seen on Steam, the new decks are just as played as any other.  Dunno what platform you're on chavafx, but your observations certainly aren't born out on Steam anyway.  Maybe Steam players are more likely to buy immediately?

Nov 22, 2012 -- 12:44AM, MysteriousMisterP wrote:

If I may make a positive post in this thread, Steam has deck pack 1 on sale for half price, for one day.

Thank you MMP!
one of the more useful comment I've seen in a while on these boards

On topic: I haven't used the new decks yet, but from what I've seen on steam, they are anything but unpopular. I get matched up against one or the other all the time I play online.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:32PM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

I do appreciate you messaging me, Splattercat. Since you posted your message for everyone, I'd might as well post the reply I intended to send you as I catch up with my direct messages (there is a long Holiday weekend about to start, so again, my apologies if some remain unanswered).

While I have passed on your request for an additional deck pack (which I saw requested by a number of people with the news about the promo cards), I wouldn't want to personally make a thread that would set that expectation for anyone. I know there currently aren't plans to make a deck pack of that nature for Duels 2013, and the last thing I want to do is set a bar for petitions or threads with the promise of a new release at the end when ultimately there are a lot of internal and external factors involved in planning these kinds of things where the Duels team is concerned.

Acknowledged.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

He's right about the 5 colour deck though. If any deck would need 40 cards...

Nov 22, 2012 -- 6:38AM, Splattercat wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 12:32PM, Wizards_Sean wrote:

I do appreciate you messaging me, Splattercat. Since you posted your message for everyone, I'd might as well post the reply I intended to send you as I catch up with my direct messages (there is a long Holiday weekend about to start, so again, my apologies if some remain unanswered).

While I have passed on your request for an additional deck pack (which I saw requested by a number of people with the news about the promo cards), I wouldn't want to personally make a thread that would set that expectation for anyone. I know there currently aren't plans to make a deck pack of that nature for Duels 2013, and the last thing I want to do is set a bar for petitions or threads with the promise of a new release at the end when ultimately there are a lot of internal and external factors involved in planning these kinds of things where the Duels team is concerned.

Acknowledged.

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 21, 2012 -- 4:02PM, chavafx wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />i now doubt that they can make the 5 color deck fun or equal   wich is sad really 

Please don't state your personal opinion as fact. I play SaS a lot, and it is a very reliable and strong deck. It's all in the build and the way you play, same goes for every deck. Saying you don't like it is one thing, saying it isn't good is just silly and ignorant. 

He's right about the 5 colour deck though. If any deck would need 40 cards...

Perhaps, though while 40 would be better, I wouldn't go so far as to say it needs them. I'm looking forward to it in any case, because at the very least, each new deck changes the meta and gives a few of your own favorites new applications. 

Depends. If we're getting a 5-color list that is meant to be played in a specific way, it could come Duels-optimized out of the box with no unlocks and still be considered acceptable. However, what if the deck is supposed to be a glimpse into the realm of a more open deck building future for the Duels franchise? If that's the case, less cards doesn't seem too appealing as it stifles creativity options.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 11:17AM, Brodo wrote:

Depends. If we're getting a 5-color list that is meant to be played in a specific way, it could come Duels-optimized out of the box with no unlocks and still be considered acceptable. However, what if the deck is supposed to be a glimpse into the realm of a more open deck building future for the Duels franchise? If that's the case, less cards doesn't seem too appealing as it stifles creativity options.

I agree, and 40 cards would be better, I would never dispute that. I'm just saying I can live with 30. 

Eh, it's not so much that the new decks are BAD (which is why I said "mediocre").  I've been winning with both of them against human players to unlock the cards, so clearly they're not "bad" if I can win even without the best cards unlocked.

I just find them both kind of boring.  AoW needs way more removal options (a couple Lightning Helix and a single Sunblast Angel really don't cut it, give me a couple Wrath of God or an Earthquake at least) and SaS needs way more control and ramp.  I guess if you ignore what Blue and Green are usually good for it's easier to like, but playing a blue deck with almost no bounce (and what bounce there is, is terrible) and a grand total of two counterspells (one of which costs six mana) and playing a green deck without a single ramp option beyond Coiling Oracle is just frustrating.

If the Simic deck had 2xHarrow I'd like it a lot more.

Nov 22, 2012 -- 11:49AM, DroneOn wrote:

Eh, it's not so much that the new decks are BAD (which is why I said "mediocre").  I've been winning with both of them against human players to unlock the cards, so clearly they're not "bad" if I can win even without the best cards unlocked.

I just find them both kind of boring.  AoW needs way more removal options (a couple Lightning Helix and a single Sunblast Angel really don't cut it, give me a couple Wrath of God or an Earthquake at least) and SaS needs way more control and ramp.  I guess if you ignore what Blue and Green are usually good for it's easier to like, but playing a blue deck with almost no bounce (and what bounce there is, is terrible) and a grand total of two counterspells (one of which costs six mana) and playing a green deck without a single ramp option beyond Coiling Oracle is just frustrating.

If the Simic deck had 2xHarrow I'd like it a lot more.

First of all, I love the pic.  Whoever that is she's hot, lol.

Secondly, I love when decks are different from the norm.  Not EVERY blue deck needs to have counters.  Not EVERY green deck should be about a 20/20 Trample, etc.  I love when colors are being played outside the norm...unless... Ember Shot ...that should never have been, lol.  I see where you are coming from though.  I love my counters and bounces and big guys for next to no mana...but I also like it when it is something different.

I really enjoy both new decks.  I enjoy the feel, I enjoy the themes, and I think they hold up really well in play.  Mostly, it is something new and adds more variety overall which is never a bad thing imo.

Also, the one bounce SaS has is terrible?  I hope you are not talking about Aether Mutation as it is one of my favorite spells in the deck.  A lot of flavor and very efficient.  It will stall a game long enough to start dominating nearly every time.  I also love the Selkie Hedge-Mage .  It also has a lot of flavor with green and blue and works as a really nice bounce with a side of gaining life and another creature on the board (what is there not to like?)

Selkie Hedge-Mage and Aether Mutation are good, granted.  I actually forgot about those somehow.

I love AW, which is a non-traditional Green deck (Green control), so I see what you're saying there.  Maybe SaS will grow on me, it's definitely more fun than AoW.

If you meant my avatar, that's from when I dressed as Trianna Orpheus (from Venture Bros.) for Halloween one year.  I'm not actually a goth, I just play one at work.

I did mean your avatar (I don't know why I couldn't think of the word "avatar" earlier, lol).  I love Venture Bros., [adult swim] ftw!  You pull it off very well! I thought it kinda looked like the main chick from Phantogram (she is stupid hot).

Anyhow...SaS is a lot of fun with a lot of neat tricks, I always really enjoy playing it.  I can see why someone might not like AoW as it is a more straight forward deck (for the most part) but I still find it to be really fun.  Then again I don't find any deck not to be fun.  I know some people that only like to play 2 or 3 decks period (I will never understand this).

Nice to see a response from Sean. Just as Splattercat and some other members suggested, with enough support and participation maybe we can have those additional 10 cards in a subsequent release for every deck pack, and all will be well in the world

That's a good enough reason for me to be explicit about the issue, and it gives a lot of value to this thread. I might buy the deck packs then, even at a slightly higher price (which really, shouldn't even need that much programming or design time if we all participate) if we finally have those 10 unlocks for every deck.

Nov 23, 2012 -- 7:00PM, Dieknochenblume wrote:

Nice to see a response from Sean. Just as Splattercat and some other members suggested, with enough support and participation maybe we can have those additional 10 cards in a subsequent release for every deck pack, and all will be well in the world

That's a good enough reason for me to be explicit about the issue, and it gives a lot of value to this thread. I might buy the deck packs then, even at a slightly higher price (which really, shouldn't even need that much programming or design time if we all participate) if we finally have those 10 unlocks for every deck.

wait did i miss something??   ..  are we geting 10 promo cards after all??   if we are then wow my respect to sean and wotc/steanless   is wise to admit when you make a misstake..
 

Just as a thought exercise, and to get an idea how much AoW/SaS would likely be improved by promos, I'm going to go over each of the first 15 decks and mention what cards I see at least half the people in 2HG use, or what I'd consider auto-includes in most builds for decks I never see online (like Pack Instinct.)

Spoiler: Show

You know, it's almost as most of those decks rely on...or are even defined by...several of those promo cards. Perhaps this is why AoW and SaS are so very middle of the road. Are we entitled to these promos? No. Do we deserve them? Debatable. Would they make things more fun and balanced for those two decks? I'd like to think so (so long as Wizards doesn't go overboard and turn SaS into a Stasis deck or something.) :p 

Nov 23, 2012 -- 7:30PM, chavafx wrote:

Nov 23, 2012 -- 7:00PM, Dieknochenblume wrote:

Nice to see a response from Sean. Just as Splattercat and some other members suggested, with enough support and participation maybe we can have those additional 10 cards in a subsequent release for every deck pack, and all will be well in the world

That's a good enough reason for me to be explicit about the issue, and it gives a lot of value to this thread. I might buy the deck packs then, even at a slightly higher price (which really, shouldn't even need that much programming or design time if we all participate) if we finally have those 10 unlocks for every deck.

wait did i miss something??   ..  are we geting 10 promo cards after all??   if we are then wow my respect to sean and wotc/steanless   is wise to admit when you make a misstake..
 

We have his support and is sending all our info, ideas and desires for the 10 extra cards to the developers et al, but he can't guarantee that it will happen. No-one can really. Not even the developers.

But we're hoping for a repeat of the outcry for a change to Serra Ascendant (which wouldn't have happened if we didn't say anything).
it's a slightly bigger issue, adding cards to the decks, but I'd personally rather not sit by and just hope they don't make the same mistake for 2014. I'd rather have 2013 be complete and mass community activity surrounding the subject is pretty much the only means we have to make it remotely possible.

To be fair to Stainlless. They might ignore us on the forums, but they've yet to fail to impliment anything we've asked for. It's impossible to say thye've taken zero direction/ideas from these boards. Especially when some decks are nearly identical to ones that Brodo and Splattercat (and others) have posted before

First of all, I would like to again thank Wizards_Sean for doing as much as he does for our community here on the DotP forums.  He also loves magic as much as any of us, he is in my tournament atm and I played with him in the 2hg tournament as well, and I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see DotP improve as much as any of us would.  Of course I am not trying to put words into someone elses mouth, that is just what I believe myself.

Secondly, I agree that it is awesome that wizards does seem to be listening to us and they do seem to be willing to make changes that we have suggested.  Only time will tell if they do, but I think signs look good.  For now, I say keep up the good work!

Lastly, I just want to point out that this 10 more cards for current decks, at least from what I can tell, looks like a far cry in the dark.  I'm guessing there's a 10% chance this happens.  So for those that are all but banking on this, I would slow down a bit and not get your hopes up.  If it does actually happen?  I will be VERY impressed with everyone who is involved in making and updating this game.  I can't complain too much, as this is my only means of playing a game I have loved since I started playing during Revised.

Nov 24, 2012 -- 9:38AM, minddrifter wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Lastly, I just want to point out that this 10 more cards for current decks, at least from what I can tell, looks like a far cry in the dark.  I'm guessing there's a 10% chance this happens.  So for those that are all but banking on this, I would slow down a bit and not get your hopes up.  If it does actually happen?  I will be VERY impressed with everyone who is involved in making and updating this game.  I can't complain too much, as this is my only means of playing a game I have loved since I started playing during Revised.

I'm probably the biggest advocator for the cards being added, but even then, I wouldn't give it 1/100th those odds.

The odds of getting these cards are literally slim-to-none.

But I feel we have to try. In my opinion it's worth trying despite the odds.

i hope they do it ..   then i'll buy the deck's..   for now  i stay with the real complete deck's ..out of the  17 deck's that we have there's only 3 decks that they need help or are not complete in some way  and  lets face it is true..

and those deck's are   red/blue . white/red . blue/green       yes they are ok  but  they miss the nuke bombs   the other decks have  may be the green/blue deck  is only missing  help to ramp  but in bombs is fine ...  

they did much better then 09 and 12  .. and i thought that was the standar  and then the deck pack came  sad very sad..

   i now dont have hope for the  5 color mana deck

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if those 3 decks are not any good for you then you are not doing a good job building or playing them.  I play all 3 and sure, I don't win as much as I do with Goblins, but I win more than I lose.  If all I am going to do is play the "top 3" decks then ya, I wouldn't bother buying any more deck packs either I suppose.

Nov 24, 2012 -- 3:53PM, minddrifter wrote:

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if those 3 decks are not any good for you then you are not doing a good job building or playing them.  I play all 3 and sure, I don't win as much as I do with Goblins, but I win more than I lose.  If all I am going to do is play the "top 3" decks then ya, I wouldn't bother buying any more deck packs either I suppose.

i actually play with those deck's but i can tell they are not as good...    yeah right now be the i love  this deck and u are the noob.   but at the end of the day they need help or they miss something  ..  

and before some one say's is just me  go and read the countless  post's  for all of those's deck's
just because you can win some games doesnt mean they are on equall ground
 

I have a friend who has over 500 games recorded and both the new decks are around the middle.  No deck, even from top to bottom, is THAT much better than the "worst".  So ya, it is how you play and build and ya, no deck is THAT much better than any other.  I've recorded about the last 50 games myself, and so far they are about the same, in the middle.  There are also nearly as many people who agree with me, if you look at the forums, that agree with you.  I will defend ANY deck because I think ANY deck is good if played right and built right.

I hear people complain about every single deck.  I have heard people call every deck too powerful, I have heard people say every deck was too weak at some point (I knew a couple people even complain about goblins being too weak when DotP came out and they didn't know how to play it well).  I was playing a friend and he was playing ED (the deck I have the most wins with btw) and said he thought it was weak.  I said "No way man, that deck is amazing."  Then he admited "Well, I don't play it that often so I'm just not comfortable with it."  I think this is usually the problem.  Someone has a rough time getting a deck to work and then barely plays it writing it off as "no good".  I also know some people, and this will always baffle me, they don't like playing anything other than 2 or 3 decks and they are generally bad with any other deck.

That's the problem for anyone who thinks that ANY deck is too weak.  They don't give it a good enough chance or just can't get that build and play style right.

Nov 25, 2012 -- 7:30AM, minddrifter wrote:

I have a friend who has over 500 games recorded and both the new decks are around the middle.  No deck, even from top to bottom, is THAT much better than the "worst".  So ya, it is how you play and build and ya, no deck is THAT much better than any other.  I've recorded about the last 50 games myself, and so far they are about the same, in the middle.  There are also nearly as many people who agree with me, if you look at the forums, that agree with you.  I will defend ANY deck because I think ANY deck is good if played right and built right.

I hear people complain about every single deck.  I have heard people call every deck too powerful, I have heard people say every deck was too weak at some point (I knew a couple people even complain about goblins being too weak when DotP came out and they didn't know how to play it well).  I was playing a friend and he was playing ED (the deck I have the most wins with btw) and said he thought it was weak.  I said "No way man, that deck is amazing."  Then he admited "Well, I don't play it that often so I'm just not comfortable with it."  I think this is usually the problem.  Someone has a rough time getting a deck to work and then barely plays it writing it off as "no good".  I also know some people, and this will always baffle me, they don't like playing anything other than 2 or 3 decks and they are generally bad with any other deck.

That's the problem for anyone who thinks that ANY deck is too weak.  They don't give it a good enough chance or just can't get that build and play style right.

Agreed, you should be able to build and pilot every deck to achieve fairly consistent results. I will say that I think some decks are 'better' than others, but any of the decks can win a sufficient portion of matchups if done right.

I agree, some decks have a little more ways to deal with things, but as you said, any of the decks are good enough to win more often than not.  I find it pathetic when people only run the "top" decks.

I find it pathetic in any sport when people complain about others using more reliable tactics to win.  It makes you look like a scrub.

If you're having fun with the game, good for you.  Stop hating on anyone who plays the way they want to in order to win.

If you find the players using those decks aren't good, find other opponents who are, because they are out there, waiting to play the best.  Seek to be that with whatever you play the strongest; just don't hate on others who do the same if those decks are powerful ones.

Lol, more reliable tactics?  If being too scared to play half the decks is a reliable tactic then w/e.  I agree, play to have fun but don't come here whining and crying when you can't win blaming it on wizards for bad deck options.  I use the same options and win.  I'm not hating, I'm tired of whiners like yourself.  If you don't have any real thing to say about the decks then don't say anything at all, and most of all, please stop crying.

I play GG and SS only in ranked because that's where my wins count and one loss knocks me down about 50 places. In casual games though I will soon the wheel and play whatever deck I get.

Who's crying?  I win most of the matches I play, with most of the decks I play.  I just find it sad when people hate on others for using decks they like,  especially when they're playing to win.

"If being too scared to play half the decks is a reliable tactic then w/e"

No one's "scared to play" them.  It doesn't make sense to take a mediocre deck against the rest of the field and expect the best results out of it.  If you have fun playing it, awesome.  If you're doing well with it, more power to you.  But don't claim others are scared to play the other decks, when the top ones run tested and true.

"I agree, play to have fun but don't come here whining and crying when you can't win blaming it on wizards for bad deck options.  I use the same options and win."

Cool, and agreed.

"I'm not hating, I'm tired of whiners like yourself."

So when someone addresses your critique directly, now that person is the "whiner?"

That's the thing that gets me the most.  When someone disagrees with you, or calls you on something you say, calling them something doesn't make their point more or less valid.  I used the scrub example before to illustrate some of the flaws people have in thinking with a competitive game.  You threw in a decent point, then went all ad hominem right back.

What monk1410 said is dead-on.  You play the decks you know will give you the best chance to win, but you also have fun playing whatever on the side.  Right on!

Moral of the story?  Play what you want, but don't hate on others for playing what they want.  And calling them pathetic for doing just that makes you look much worse.

Back on topic...if Wizards was willing to put in another round of promos, how would they profit off of them?  The codes have already been given out and leaked for awhile, so would performing a service like giving us more cards for the deck pack decks be likely?

Nov 25, 2012 -- 7:30AM, minddrifter wrote:

I have a friend who has over 500 games recorded and both the new decks are around the middle.  No deck, even from top to bottom, is THAT much better than the "worst".  So ya, it is how you play and build and ya, no deck is THAT much better than any other.  I've recorded about the last 50 games myself, and so far they are about the same, in the middle.  There are also nearly as many people who agree with me, if you look at the forums, that agree with you.  I will defend ANY deck because I think ANY deck is good if played right and built right.

I hear people complain about every single deck.  I have heard people call every deck too powerful, I have heard people say every deck was too weak at some point (I knew a couple people even complain about goblins being too weak when DotP came out and they didn't know how to play it well).  I was playing a friend and he was playing ED (the deck I have the most wins with btw) and said he thought it was weak.  I said "No way man, that deck is amazing."  Then he admited "Well, I don't play it that often so I'm just not comfortable with it."  I think this is usually the problem.  Someone has a rough time getting a deck to work and then barely plays it writing it off as "no good".  I also know some people, and this will always baffle me, they don't like playing anything other than 2 or 3 decks and they are generally bad with any other deck.

That's the problem for anyone who thinks that ANY deck is too weak.  They don't give it a good enough chance or just can't get that build and play style right.

I'll agree with this, and I'll even admit to being one of those people. I really underestimated ED, then in the random deck tournament I hosted, that's the deck I ended up playing. Got to the final round with it. Beat Collective Might, Obedient Dead, and Peacekeepers, and the matchups felt pretty favorable in my direction. Lost 0-2 in the finals to SS, but I would say that ED can hold its own against SS until SS draws a bunch of cards, the issue ED has in the long-run is the lack of card drawing. That tournament really changed my perspective on ED, and I have a lot more respect for it now.

There's only one deck where the more I played it, the weaker I felt it was, and that deck is Sky and Scale. It still isn't terrible like Dragon's Roar and other from 2012, but I can't help but feel that deck does need a boost.

Nov 25, 2012 -- 7:52PM, megamaster125 wrote:

I'll agree with this, and I'll even admit to being one of those people. I really underestimated ED, then in the random deck tournament I hosted, that's the deck I ended up playing. Got to the final round with it. Beat Collective Might, Obedient Dead, and Peacekeepers, and the matchups felt pretty favorable in my direction. Lost 0-2 in the finals to SS, but I would say that ED can hold its own against SS until SS draws a bunch of cards, the issue ED has in the long-run is the lack of card drawing. That tournament really changed my perspective on ED, and I have a lot more respect for it now.

I think ED deserves the prize to most underrated deck in the game.

ED or MS; both of those have netted me more wins than I would have thought before playing them.

I might have been a bit out of line, but if you think you were being "high and moral", Jizzon, you should check yourself.  I think we both got a little over the top but you justifying yourself while bashing me at the same time makes you no better than me (whether or not you may think so) any more than I am any better than you.  Perhaps we should just stay on topic and let bygones be bygones eh?

Any of my friends on Steam knows I think a different deck is "the best deck" or "the worst deck" every week, especially when new decks come out.  In the end, they are pretty much the same.

As far as ED goes...I played as ED 2 more times, won both, play against it one more time and lost, lol.  Still my best deck at about 70 games played (overall) while playing decks about even (I do a lot of "spin the wheel" as well as different rotations getting all the decks in).

Nov 25, 2012 -- 8:04PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 25, 2012 -- 7:52PM, megamaster125 wrote:

I'll agree with this, and I'll even admit to being one of those people. I really underestimated ED, then in the random deck tournament I hosted, that's the deck I ended up playing. Got to the final round with it. Beat Collective Might, Obedient Dead, and Peacekeepers, and the matchups felt pretty favorable in my direction. Lost 0-2 in the finals to SS, but I would say that ED can hold its own against SS until SS draws a bunch of cards, the issue ED has in the long-run is the lack of card drawing. That tournament really changed my perspective on ED, and I have a lot more respect for it now.

I think ED deserves the prize to most underrated deck in the game.

Most underrated would be MS, since people were adamant that it was unplayable trash prior to release.

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:03AM, Splattercat wrote:

Nov 25, 2012 -- 8:04PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 25, 2012 -- 7:52PM, megamaster125 wrote:

I'll agree with this, and I'll even admit to being one of those people. I really underestimated ED, then in the random deck tournament I hosted, that's the deck I ended up playing. Got to the final round with it. Beat Collective Might, Obedient Dead, and Peacekeepers, and the matchups felt pretty favorable in my direction. Lost 0-2 in the finals to SS, but I would say that ED can hold its own against SS until SS draws a bunch of cards, the issue ED has in the long-run is the lack of card drawing. That tournament really changed my perspective on ED, and I have a lot more respect for it now.

I think ED deserves the prize to most underrated deck in the game.

Most underrated would be MS, since people were adamant that it was unplayable trash prior to release.

It's not 'unplayable trash' but it's certainly one of the weaker decks in the game; 1-2 more Gelectrode, plus some cheaper burn would make this deck something special.

I think DotP 2012 showed us how 3x Gelectrode was just too much, lol.  I mean a couple spells in a turn and they bust out some insane damage.  Then again it isn't like we don't have other broken combos in other decks...I love to play this deck and while it doesn't have the win % of GG, I still love to play this deck.  If you get a couple draw cards (of which there are plenty) along with all the burn (also plenty) it is game over damn near every time.

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:25AM, minddrifter wrote:

I think DotP 2012 showed us how 3x Gelectrode was just too much, lol.  I mean a couple spells in a turn and they bust out some insane damage.  Then again it isn't like we don't have other broken combos in other decks...I love to play this deck and while it doesn't have the win % of GG, I still love to play this deck.  If you get a couple draw cards (of which there are plenty) along with all the burn (also plenty) it is game over damn near every time.

DotP 2013 was my first foray into the world of MtG. I just bought the original DotP and Dotp 2012 for half-price on Xbox recently, so I'll be digging into them soon. 3x Gelectrode would be so sweet.

If you were going to tier the decks based on win %, I think we all agree that MS would be near the bottom. It doesn't 'really' start playing until T5! When I built this deck I didn't run the Mana Leak s because of the high cost of the other cards in the deck. I quickly put them in, however, just to be able to counter the first spell I see. I'm not judicious with their use at all, unlike in CW where I am more selective with my counterspells.

Well, I am not big on the "tiering" of decks because really there is not a big difference between the "top" and "bottom" decks and even less so everywhere inbetween.  Sure, some decks win more often (everyone's favorite GG of course), but I really don't by this whole "such and such a deck is SO bad it is not worth playing" or "I just RQ when I see GG because I know I can't win".  Both extremes are a bit over the top imo.  I know people are different, and I don't mean to bash anyone, I just personally like to play all decks and find that all decks are very viable and can still win more often than not.  I will defend that statement every time.

I do agree about Mana Leak being very good for stalling, which with any slower deck is generally a must.  Even in CW you can't save it TOO long or it will become useless (of course it takes someone being at least around 9 mana before it becomes "usless").  It may not happen often, but I hate being stuck with a Mana Leak and knowing there is basically no playing it now, lol. 

That late in the game, a Mana Leak can prevent them from having enough mana to cast a second spell that turn. Hardly great, but it still has some utility.

Oh Mana Leak , such an awesome card. Funny story; I was playing a very long 2hg game and we were all top decking. I top decked a Mana Leak and I proceeded to curse the draw engine as all of my opponents had 15 lands on the field and this was the most worthless card I could posibly draw. Next play my opponent top decks a Archaeomancer , he quickly casts it to retrieve a Rite of Replication and procees to kick it and use it on my partner's Grave Titan only for me to LOL as I mana leak it with only 2 islands open.

Ya, sometimes people forget and cast a second spell.  I suppose I should have worded it differently, it generally is never useless, but becomes more and more so as the game goes along.

BTW, I am in no way saying Mana Leak is a bad card.  Any counter is pretty much a must in any deck that runs one, lol.  I love me some Mana Leak .

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:07AM, Hakeem928 wrote:

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:03AM, Splattercat wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Most underrated would be MS, since people were adamant that it was unplayable trash prior to release.

It's not 'unplayable trash' but it's certainly one of the weaker decks in the game; 1-2 more Gelectrode, plus some cheaper burn would make this deck something special.

For sure. But from "Unplayable trash" to anything remotely resembling a competitive deck is a fairly huge gulf with regards to being underrated. MS has it's favourable and unfavourable matchups like every other deck. Ultimately though, it's received far more hate and downplaying than Exalted Darkness ever has.

This is completely ignoring the fact that it also went from unplayable trash to "OMFGTHISDECKROXIN2HG".

Nov 26, 2012 -- 8:41AM, Splattercat wrote:

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:07AM, Hakeem928 wrote:

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:03AM, Splattercat wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Most underrated would be MS, since people were adamant that it was unplayable trash prior to release.

It's not 'unplayable trash' but it's certainly one of the weaker decks in the game; 1-2 more Gelectrode, plus some cheaper burn would make this deck something special.

For sure. But from "Unplayable trash" to anything remotely resembling a competitive deck is a fairly huge gulf with regards to being underrated. MS has it's favourable and unfavourable matchups like every other deck. Ultimately though, it's received far more hate and downplaying than Exalted Darkness ever has.

This is completely ignoring the fact that it also went from unplayable trash to "OMFGTHISDECKROXIN2HG".

Well, the deck's main issue isn't with the quality of the cards, because it's full of great ones. It's just such a top-heavy wonky curve that it doesn't always work properly. In 2HG, your partner can keep you alive and once you get to 5+ land, this deck is a powerhouse. Problem with 1v1 is that sometimes no amount of skillful play can get you there.

So, a bit back on topic: Splattercat, what's the next step on showing community support to add 10 unlocks to the deck packs? Should we create a specific thread that collects "votes" or requests for this? Should we make a "letter" which can be electronically signed by players? Write more PMs to Sean? 

The Serra Ascendant thing got a lot of spotlights for being a hot thread too long, so maybe that's a good option, too. Maybe if we created a summary list of the main reasons we feel dissapointed about this situation it could stop needless arguments among players. I think we waste too much time on bashing each other while we could work together. A unified message can entail stronger support than a misled thread. 

Maybe we can start cleaning the message up by saying this is definitely not whining, and this is not sprouting from a sense of entitlement on anything. It's not even an "I can't win without those 10 cards!" thing, or most of the things that have been exagerated by some. So I'll pause it for now and see if someone is willing to collect (list) the main, serious grievances that have been posted here, and perhaps come up with a good stepping stone for the next actions.

Nov 26, 2012 -- 12:39PM, Dieknochenblume wrote:

So, a bit back on topic: Splattercat, what's the next step on showing community support to add 10 unlocks to the deck packs? Should we create a specific thread that collects "votes" or requests for this? Should we make a "letter" which can be electronically signed by players? Write more PMs to Sean? 

The Serra Ascendant thing got a lot of spotlights for being a hot thread too long, so maybe that's a good option, too. Maybe if we created a summary list of the main reasons we feel dissapointed about this situation it could stop needless arguments among players. I think we waste too much time on bashing each other while we could work together. A unified message can entail stronger support than a misled thread. 

Maybe we can start cleaning the message up by saying this is definitely not whining, and this is not sprouting from a sense of entitlement on anything. It's not even an "I can't win without those 10 cards!" thing, or most of the things that have been exagerated by some. So I'll pause it for now and see if someone is willing to collect (list) the main, serious grievances that have been posted here, and perhaps come up with a good stepping stone for the next actions.

True_Believer_02 is doing up the wishlist thread/s so I'm confident those are well in hand.

I think the best thing to do is just ensure Sean is watching and reading and updating what he's passing along.

I might pass along a message to Sean outlining my reasons for being dissatisfied with the lack of promo unlocks. I think a(nother) thread is unnecessary; there has been more than enough volume on the topic that it should be loud and clear. I'm just not a fan of the fact that most of my intent has been drowned out by the interpretations of others (historically lacking in anything resembling context). That's mostly a pet-peeve though.

One could send a message through Wizards' Corporate E-mail. A couple worries about that are that it could be seen as a lack of confidence in Sean, and that it might not do anything more than Sean passing the message along himself. However, were I to send such a message through Wizards Corporate my intent would be that the developers of the game get the message from multiple directions (so they get mesages both through their Forum liason as well as customer service).

Aside from that, keeping the additional cards as a topic (which it's doing nicely on it's own) and keeping Sean engaged enough that he updates as well as participates (which I especially wish for the latter; Sean is as much a player and fan of DotP as any of the rest of us. You hear that Sean!? Tell us what YOU think Dammit!!) and keep the information and ideas circulating through us and to the developers.

Ultimately, getting this added is a long shot and is in a whole seperate ballpark than the Serra Ascendant thing. I would like to think the community is on the same page about getting the cards. I can't think of any reasonwhy you wouldn't want 10 cards added to the last 6 decks. As well, we all have a vested interest in it because as I stated elsewhere, whether you agree with them or want them or think we'll get them, if the cards ARE added, you'll most definitely be playing against them.

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

It would be nice if the poll options linked to images of the cards, but I take it that's a limitation of the site and I can work around that. Aside from that I couldn't say I have any complaints about the poll itself and I've shifted my way of viewing the pre-pole step as well. I don't look at it as "these are the ten cards I want as promo unlucks" but rather "these are the ten cards I would like to see nominated for the poll." In which case I'm fine with putting cards like Invert the Skies and Champion of Lambholt on the same list when I otherwise would not have. Ultimately the decision on what to include or if to include any at all is up to Wizards and what we say may or may not be irrelevant.

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

Not my fault. People chose them, now they have to choose again.

Thanks for the support.

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, Karstien wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Helix gets rid of ARTIFACT CREATURES. I thought that was clear in the first post, but I'm sure it is now. And, as I said, we are suggesting more artifact/enchatment removal for the deck exactly because of the long list of cards you listed. But, if you look carefully, those cards are spread through the decks in the game. AS is the only deck that relies on enchantments to win, so, there's is no need to pile up the "promos" with hate. Remember that the goal of those "promos" is to make every playstyle possible in the deck better.

You're doing fine, True_Believer_02.  Thanks for organizing everything efficiently.

Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

Adding two cards to a deck that currently has no way to take artifacts or enchantments off the board (one of them even only when certain conditions are met) is a great idea, not a bad one. 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:21PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, Karstien wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Helix gets rid of ARTIFACT CREATURES. I thought that was clear in the first post, but I'm sure it is now. And, as I said, we are suggesting more artifact/enchatment removal for the deck exactly because of the long list of cards you listed. But, if you look carefully, those cards are spread through the decks in the game. AS is the only deck that relies on enchantments to win, so, there's is no need to pile up the "promos" with hate. Remember that the goal of those "promos" is to make every playstyle possible in the deck better.

Exactly why I would take two of them. Just two cards to help a major weakness of the deck. The other eight can go to the aggro the deck is surely favouring. Not too much to ask, right? 

As for the helix, it was crystal clear what you meant, but you suggested it to get rid of the only artifact creature that causes the deck major headaches. It doesn't, since you would have needed two of them. If it isn't whispersilk cloaked, which is another problem entirely. Either way, i'm tired of this, so let's just agree to disagree again. If you prefer only one enchantment control card in the deck, that's fine by me, but I would like two. If it helps, I run at least two for any deck that has them, so it isn't just this one. 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Karstien wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:21PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Helix gets rid of ARTIFACT CREATURES. I thought that was clear in the first post, but I'm sure it is now. And, as I said, we are suggesting more artifact/enchatment removal for the deck exactly because of the long list of cards you listed. But, if you look carefully, those cards are spread through the decks in the game. AS is the only deck that relies on enchantments to win, so, there's is no need to pile up the "promos" with hate. Remember that the goal of those "promos" is to make every playstyle possible in the deck better.

Exactly why I would take two of them. Just two cards to help a major weakness of the deck. The other eight can go to the aggro the deck is surely favouring. Not too much to ask, right? 

As for the helix, it was crystal clear what you meant, but you suggested it to get rid of the only artifact creature that causes the deck major headaches. It doesn't, since you would have needed two of them. If it isn't whispersilk cloaked, which is another problem entirely. Either way, i'm tired of this, so let's just agree to disagree again. If you prefer only one enchantment control card in the deck, that's fine by me, but I would like two. If it helps, I run at least two for any deck that has them, so it isn't just this one. 

Another hug?

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:32PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Karstien wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:21PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Helix gets rid of ARTIFACT CREATURES. I thought that was clear in the first post, but I'm sure it is now. And, as I said, we are suggesting more artifact/enchatment removal for the deck exactly because of the long list of cards you listed. But, if you look carefully, those cards are spread through the decks in the game. AS is the only deck that relies on enchantments to win, so, there's is no need to pile up the "promos" with hate. Remember that the goal of those "promos" is to make every playstyle possible in the deck better.

Exactly why I would take two of them. Just two cards to help a major weakness of the deck. The other eight can go to the aggro the deck is surely favouring. Not too much to ask, right? 

As for the helix, it was crystal clear what you meant, but you suggested it to get rid of the only artifact creature that causes the deck major headaches. It doesn't, since you would have needed two of them. If it isn't whispersilk cloaked, which is another problem entirely. Either way, i'm tired of this, so let's just agree to disagree again. If you prefer only one enchantment control card in the deck, that's fine by me, but I would like two. If it helps, I run at least two for any deck that has them, so it isn't just this one. 

Another hug?

For you, always. But only because I know you don't take these debates we seem to be having personally. 

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:34PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:32PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Karstien wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Nov 29, 2012 -- 4:21PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:47PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:33PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:17PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Karstien wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, felbatista wrote:

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:10PM, True_Believer_02 wrote:

What do you think so far of the promo unlock poll?

Is there anything to change? Or the system is good enough?

The only thing that I don't like is that I think the cards should be divided in categories to make the list better. Right now, we can have Orim's Thunder and Duergar Hedge-Mage , 2 cards that fill the same role. If one half likes the dwarf and the other likes the Thunder, we'll end with both in the final list, when the deck only needs one of them. One of those spots would be better with a sweeper, or more 2-drops.

Just my 2 cents, though. Other than that, good job!

On the contrary, I would find room for both in my deck, as enchantmenst and artifacts can be a major pain for an aggro deck like this. 

You already have ways to deal with both Artifact Creatures and non-creature Artifacts in the deck. Don't forget that There's another Fetters in the pool too.

Neither of those two cards would deal with the single artifact creature I mentioned alone, nor have any bearing on the majority of the dangerous enchantments, since the ones that are the worst tend to not rely on activated abilities. You can stop somebody putting something under a mirror sure...but if it's already there? 

The one you mentioned is in exactly one deck in the game. That's why we are suggesting the new cards in the first place. Don't forget that having more answers than targets for them is usually a bad idea.

@True_Believer_02

I know. That's how life works. Keep going

Yes, but you suggested a card that get's rid of them...it doesn't. You would like more examples? Okay...

worship
well of lost dreams
panoptic mirror
debtors knell
fable of wolf and owl
no mercy
underworld dreams
puca's mischief
forced fruition
pain magnification
future sight
beastmaster's ascension
acetisism
sulfiric vortex
wild pair
lurking predators
sigil of the empty throne

There are a few more those two cards will do either nothing at all, or not enough to completely stop it in the case of two of them. I personally like enchantment and artifact control in a deck, and would happily swap faiths fetters and another card, probably a veteran armorour, for those two. 

Helix gets rid of ARTIFACT CREATURES. I thought that was clear in the first post, but I'm sure it is now. And, as I said, we are suggesting more artifact/enchatment removal for the deck exactly because of the long list of cards you listed. But, if you look carefully, those cards are spread through the decks in the game. AS is the only deck that relies on enchantments to win, so, there's is no need to pile up the "promos" with hate. Remember that the goal of those "promos" is to make every playstyle possible in the deck better.

Exactly why I would take two of them. Just two cards to help a major weakness of the deck. The other eight can go to the aggro the deck is surely favouring. Not too much to ask, right? 

As for the helix, it was crystal clear what you meant, but you suggested it to get rid of the only artifact creature that causes the deck major headaches. It doesn't, since you would have needed two of them. If it isn't whispersilk cloaked, which is another problem entirely. Either way, i'm tired of this, so let's just agree to disagree again. If you prefer only one enchantment control card in the deck, that's fine by me, but I would like two. If it helps, I run at least two for any deck that has them, so it isn't just this one. 

Another hug?

For you, always. But only because I know you don't take these debates we seem to be having personally. 

Like everyone in the internet... OH WAIT!

Ok quick question. Are we certain the decision is final? Is there no chance the powers that be change their minds in an effort to keep the decks balenced? B/C imo the difference really shows. Dimir & Boros both come to mind. I'm not saying you can't win just saying the new decks feel a little underwhelming comparatively. It seems like Wizards wouldn't want that kind of imbalance.