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7 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 1:44PM
#31
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I'm testing Mortars and Thunderbolt. If I can decide on a split, or 1 over the other I can make some room for Reverberate.
Problem VS Reanimator is if they reanimate Griselbrand, they just might be able to draw into more answers to survive / win out right. But it's not Griselbrand I'm worried about seeing pop out of the 'yard. It's Thragtusk. 5 life, on a card they have no problem casting from hand. I just want to slow them down long enough to not let them stall too many turns with it. Cage does that. I always see Centaur Healers come in from Reanimator SBs, all because Thragtusk is so splash-able and Rites has it's white flashback cost. I stop Rites, and my go big plan does the rest.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 1:49PM
#32
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I believe RDW works best when its built for maximal damage in turns 1 to 4. I think the deck needs to be constructed with the idea that you should be able to get your opponent down to 6 or fewer life within those 4 turns.
in a perfect world, sure.
but this is a thragtusk world, along with a million other life gaining cards that "go big"
not adapting will prove problematic. this is why this deck needs to be playing more midrange threats, including probably at least 2 thundermaw hellkites.
it's like demigod of revenge  era red decks
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think. 
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7 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 2:37PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2012
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I believe RDW works best when its built for maximal damage in turns 1 to 4. I think the deck needs to be constructed with the idea that you should be able to get your opponent down to 6 or fewer life within those 4 turns.
in a perfect world, sure.
but this is a thragtusk world, along with a million other life gaining cards that "go big"
not adapting will prove problematic. this is why this deck needs to be playing more midrange threats, including probably at least 2 thundermaw hellkites.
it's like demigod of revenge era red decks
... which is why I sideboard them in in game 2,3 ... my belief is that in the first game, they have enough trouble getting enough of the lands they need to play effectively in the first four turns, whereas RDW has a much more consistent draw - I think the odds are in RDW favor with quick attack - he may be able to pull out a Thargtusk in turn four, but if he's got 3 mana colors to cover, probably not... so I've got 4 turns to get him down to a place where he has to play defensively ...
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7 months ago ::
Dec 03, 2012 - 2:56PM
#34
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i mean, it's not like the dragons are necessarily bad against decks that don't have thragtusk. creature vs. creature decks often can come down to who has the bigger stuff
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:20AM
#35
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It actually isn't to hard to hit 3 colors of mana over 4 turns. It just makes the deck more expensive. Temple Garden  , Hallowed Fountain  , Glacial Fortress  , Sunpetal Grove  , and Hinterland Harbor  all make the Bant colors pretty easy to hit in a timely maner. Fill that out with 4 basics and you've got yourself a Bant manabase, that can very easily Syncopate  your turn 2/3 play, drop a Centaur Healer  , flash in a Restoration Angel  , drop a Thragtusk  and start building up for a nice Sphinx's Revelation  .
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7 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:29AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2012
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It actually isn't to hard to hit 3 colors of mana over 4 turns. It just makes the deck more expensive. Temple Garden , Hallowed Fountain , Glacial Fortress , Sunpetal Grove , and Hinterland Harbor all make the Bant colors pretty easy to hit in a timely maner. Fill that out with 4 basics and you've got yourself a Bant manabase, that can very easily Syncopate your turn 2/3 play, drop a Centaur Healer , flash in a Restoration Angel , drop a Thragtusk and start building up for a nice Sphinx's Revelation .
That's certainly possible, and I understand that can happen, and there are just going to be some games where thier draw is better and they do simply have better cards for the midgame in thier deck as they can choose from three colors (+gold) for the midgame. If they can get that strong a draw, start to stabalize the board in turn 3 and have a stable board by turn 5, RDW is always going to struggle... I just don't think that'll happen in most games against Bant, because they are built for a mid game that typically starts to come into play by turn 5, although a good draw means they can stablize the board by turn 5..
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7 months ago ::
Dec 04, 2012 - 7:46AM
#37
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As RB Aggro gains in popularity, Bant and other decks will find ways to stabalize by turn 4/5. That means the weenie approach for RDW just can't cut it. Hellkite is good VS pretty much every deck because it's a 5/5 hasted flyer that can potential be unblocked the turn it's played, and maybe wipe out a bunch of tokens too. He punishes variance just as well, if not better than a weenie rush.
If you have the Hellkites, there really is no good reason to leave them in your SB. Your SB is for cards that improve your bad match ups and fights cards that others are going to bring in against you. Not for cards that you just didn't want to put in your MD.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 08, 2012 - 1:55PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2012
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I ran a build very similar to Chiaelvis' list on page 1. The biggest difference was running Guttersnipe  in place of Pyreheart Wolf  . While initially that swap was done due to availability, I honestly preferred the outcomes when Guttersnipe hit. I went 2-2. Here's a brief synopsys of my matchups: Spoiler:
Show
Round 1: GB control 2-0 Ok, so my opponent was mostly running a rogue build meant to tackle the major midrange decks of the night. The build ran beautifully, as I played a total of 7 turns between the two games. The rare creature he managed to drop was snagged by Traitorous Blood  , burns worked well, etc.
Round 2: Jund Midrange 1-2 There was some variance from the standard, but the creature hate created some problems. The 2 games I lost did come down to no more than a 3 life difference. It turned into a topdeck race, and I did not win. Part of that was my mistake in not siding in Thunderbolt  like I should have, but you live and you learn.
Round 3: Mirror 1-2 Oh, aggro races. Again, topdeck race that I lost by a few points. Past the race, it mostly came down to who played first.
Round 4: Reanimator 2-1 The speed won out, for the most part. The one game my opponent won, it was because of a play mistake on my part (kept a hand I should have mulliganed).Few issues I'm finding in some regularly MD cards: Spoiler:
Show
Stromkirk Noble  Say what you will. I feel this card is underpowered too long and has too little utility, unless you have a Furor of the Bitten  to drop on him. He only deals 1dmg on the second turn out, which I found to be problematic. The pump is nice, but if there's anything to block, he's scrap on the field.
Pillar of Flame  Without a Guttersnipe or Nivmagus Elemental on the field, it just feels lacking. I'd be happier if it was instant speed, but I'll just have to wait for Shock to get a reprint.
Hellrider  If you can get this off against a deck that has little to no creature hate, it's golden. Otherwise, it's a 4 drop 3/3 that'll hit your opponent for 1, if you're lucky.
The one other problem I had was card draw. Even in successful games, it's easy to be relying on your topdeck, which always makes me nervous.
Here's the build I'm going to run next week. I'll post results then. And I do realize it's 63 cards. I feel the utility outweighs the risks (at the moment) Spoiler:
Show
20 Mountain
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Nivmagus Elemental (helps against control, and makes Pillar more versatile)
4 Vexing Devil (worked consistently as both burn and creature)
3 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Mauler (I rarely had nothing the Mauler could pair with for haste)
3 Guttersnipe (works with all the burn and Nivmagus, if any problems pop up)
2 Hellrider (keeping, as it's still generally useful)
3 Furor of the Bitten
4 Pillar of Flame (it's cheap, and works with some of my creatures)
2 Thunderous Wrath
4 Searing Spear
2 Traitorous Blood (great card, don't always need it)
4 Dangerous Wager (fixes hand issues, works with Snipe/Elemental)
SB
2 Traitorous Blood (in case I want to see it more often)
2 Grafdigger's Cage (Helped greatly against the Reanimator)
2 Annihilating Fire (also helped against Reanimator)
3 Flames of the Firebrand
4 Thunderbolt
2 Mizzium Mortars (fatty hate)
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7 months ago ::
Dec 08, 2012 - 2:20PM
#39
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Running a 63 card list on 20 lands seems like a big risk. How often were you stuck fishing for a 3rd or 4th land? And did you ever find yourself wishing for gas over Wager? I've never been a believer in card draw in aggro. More so in a deck like RDW. Card draw is more for midrange and control decks in my mind.
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7 months ago ::
Dec 08, 2012 - 5:07PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2012
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Running a 63 card list on 20 lands seems like a big risk. How often were you stuck fishing for a 3rd or 4th land? And did you ever find yourself wishing for gas over Wager? I've never been a believer in card draw in aggro. More so in a deck like RDW. Card draw is more for midrange and control decks in my mind.
I did not run into issues with fishing for lands. #3 was consistent, #4 was never an issue. The build I posted isn't what I used yesterday, but what I'll be running next week (idealy). I'm going to try to get some playtests in before the next FNM. Given the very low mana curve, I think I'll be alright. I'll definitely let you folks know.
I feel the card draw will be useful, as I often found myself waiting for a topdeck option after my hand was empty. With Wager's instant speed, I can drop it at the end of an opponent's turn, and have 3 options sitting in my hand after my draw step. While I would generally agree that draw is more midrange/control, the synergy with Guttersnipe and quick option increase is very appealing, given my experience with my previous build.
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