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8 months ago ::
Nov 10, 2012 - 7:54PM
#71
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2008
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For the record, my beef isn't so much about combo players, but players that both run insanely powerful decks and scoff at other players that choose to make less powerful decks because they prefer that type of game state...
You know, the whole "if your deck isn't as powerful as mine, you must suck at this game, so get better now by playing the same way I like to play" attitude.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 10, 2012 - 8:02PM
#72
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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Yeah, that's just a dick attitude to have in general, certainly. Excuse me for not having hundreds of dollars to burn on a casual format, ya know, what with college, living expenses, and part-time work. 
Resident Logic Cannon
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8 months ago ::
Nov 10, 2012 - 10:56PM
#73
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Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2009
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I have to agree there. On another note, it is one thing to pull an infinite combo on like turn 15. By that time, anyone should at least have some form of answer. Pulling out a turn 5 or less infinite combo however isn't much fun at all for most players. My own does have one or two infinite combos, but I also run a hug deck, and both the combos in question are just silly by design. Mind over Matter  + Jace's Archivist  / Temple Bell  + Psychosis crawler  / Laboratory Maniac  . Someone is probably going to go for combo win at some point. Thats just the nature of the format. Some combo plays are easier to deal with then others, and as you play with others, you get to know what decks have what combo's, making you more prepared to deal with them. You should also ask yourself if a particular combo is a "That guy" sort of move, or something the entire table can just roll their eyes at. Also, did you earn the combo, or did you cheat it out? Hardcasting an Omniscience  for example. My Momir deck for example has a habit of completely derailing the game. More so if I pull off T1 Burgeoning followed by a T2 Collective Voyage. I play it not cause it can easily win the game, but because it spirals the board state into complete chaos. What happens after that you really can't get mad at, though few hands expect everyone at the table to have 8+ lands that early in the game. If I play Shared fate  the turn after that however, I deserve to be called a jerk.
RPGtable username : RTiger
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8 months ago ::
Nov 11, 2012 - 7:50AM
#74
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2009
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There are 2 combo deck I know of off hand that can reliably win by turn 3. Hermit Druid  decks and Maralen of the Mornsong  . Both of these decks are far too fast to handle unless you know that you are playing against them and mulligan into fast answers like Force of Will, Foil, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile or similar stuff. I agree that different player have different playstyles and most people don't have lots of money to spend on a casual format such as this one. But in Casual most players don't mind proxies or making a less powerful deck to accommodate lower budgets. I did this myself. I have a tendency to make very powerful combo/control decks that have a very high win percentage even under extreme hate however I have recently started toning it down a little cause newer players cant compete. I've even had to shelf one of my decks cause it never loses in my group and I do like a challenge. I'm a Jhonny/Spike but my combos are mostly all 1 card combos. I believe Tooth and Nail should be banned but I'm gonna play it till it is.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 11, 2012 - 9:44AM
#75
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I cant think of an infinite combo that cant be interacted with. Some are harder than others yes. But they are interactive.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir  + Knowledge Pool  .
This is the kind that I don't like. I don't mind combos because there's always something you could have done to stop it. If not, it's your own fault for not running answers. What I have a problem with are things that lock everyone out of the game but don't even have the decency to just win. This lock in particular, if you don't have a counterspell for Teferi then you never get to do anything. Not any other kind of answer, because you won't get a chance to use it. It has to be a counter, and you have exactly one chance to have it before you stop getting to do things.
Not infinite, and not uninteractive.
there are otherways to deal with the lock. Not many of which are good. But this is not an uninteractive combo. as you said I can counter teferi. There are cards that cycle. There are permanents you can play early that can disrupt the combo even after it lands. If this sort of thing is tearing up a meta, I would expect the meta to change.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 11, 2012 - 2:47PM
#76
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2007
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If this sort of thing is tearing up a meta, I would expect the meta to change.
So you hate out this deck. What about all the other combos? You can't hate them all out.
One player has Teferi deck lock. He also has SHruum with Thopter Foundry and other combos, a Sekuar deck focusing Melira redcap, an Ob Nixilis deck sanguine bond/exquisite blood, Ghave deck with a bunch of combos in there, a Progenitus deck with Jace and Wheel of Sun and Moon comb, and I'm not going to go through all of this ONE player's 15 decks. And we all have blue decks which are ridiculously easy to take infinite turns with. There's 5 of us, each with 10-15 decks except me with 5 and another with 1. How are you suppose to hate out all of those combos?
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8 months ago ::
Nov 11, 2012 - 3:39PM
#77
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I suppose don't understand the question.
I cant really give you an answer to what amounts to an unanswerable question. You might well have asked "how do you beat an unbeatable deck?"
The answer is you cant beat the unbeatable. I guess that means you can't hate out every combo deck. But, being mature players, I would expect an attempt to best the combos encountered. I would expect a meta to adapt both in deck construction then with social pressure. If the answer cannot be found in those two options then you've encountered the "unbeatable deck."
I for one don't believe in such things as unbeatable decks.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 15, 2012 - 5:27PM
#78
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2010
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You know what would make life super great? Is if the people who hate info combos find a playgroup with other people who don't like them, and the people who don't mind info combo or play info combo play in a different playgroup. Done is done.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 15, 2012 - 6:35PM
#79
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You can have a mixed group. Just so long as everyone accepts that not every game is going to be to their preference.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 17, 2012 - 9:09PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2010
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All tyhe praetors to some extent draw groans from around the table. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur  and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger  < /a>  are the only truly despisable ones though. The others add to a deck's level of dickishness, but those two automatically make your whole deck annoying to play against. I might be drawing some fire here but I really hate Maze of Ith  . If a whole table has mazes out then it's just about impossible for you to get value out of attacking with anything but token swarms. It also encourages land destruction which I don't suppouse I need to get into. Pro tip: If somebody casts apocalypse  or obliterate  in a game of commander and you kick them in the shins nobody else at the table will mind that you did this.
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