I know there are plenty of suggestions as to what to put in an EDH deck, but I wanted to figure out a list of cards NOT to put in an EDH deck, and I am not talking about the common stuff (Single target damage, straight beaters). I am talking about cards that are too good, in a way. No legends on this list.
I would have to put Blightsteel Colossus on that list. Strong card, but too easy to Bribe . Often Game over when that happens
I know there are plenty of suggestions as to what to put in an EDH deck, but I wanted to figure out a list of cards NOT to put in an EDH deck, and I am not talking about the common stuff (Single target damage, straight beaters). I am talking about ca
time stretch . Unfun, uninteractive, and we'll totally bone you if your opponent can abuse it (knowledge exploitation, redirect, wrexial the risen deep, memory plunder, ect)
time stretch . Unfun, uninteractive, and we'll totally bone you if your opponent can abuse it (knowledge exploitation, redirect, wrexial the risen deep, memory plunder, ect)
Sorin Markov , his + ability is fine, but too weak to be useful. Both of his - abilities are 'that guy' moves. I guess that means Mindslaver would be bad as well.
Winter Orb &/or Stasis would be a bore for everyone else, and might shut your own deck down as well.
Sorin Markov , his + ability is fine, but too weak to be useful. Both of his - abilities are 'that guy' moves. I guess that means Mindslaver would be bad as well.Just because they are
I think he's qualifying Ulamog as land destruction. Which is fairly accurate, since unless they are playing a token deck or some heavy, heavy recursion, people will sac lands to Annhiliator before they sac creatures.
That being the case, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth should also be on his list. Maybe it's the LD plus Indestructible that he finds bad with Ulamog.
I think he's qualifying Ulamog as land destruction. Which is fairly accurate, since unless they are playing a token deck or some heavy, heavy recursion, people will sac lands to Annhiliator before they sac creatures.That being the case, Kozilek,
But most of the cards we found unfun were subsequently banned. Right now there isn't much in that vein that we avoid.
I guess cards that slow the game down like The winter orb effects. Mass LD is ok if it hits all players. And collective voyage... ruins games a lot of times.
But all of those have a place. Build multiple decks and you can branch out into the forbidden territory without it feeling tedious.
This is a really tough question. But most of the cards we found unfun were subsequently banned. Right now there isn't much in that vein that we avoid.I guess cards that slow the game down like The winter orb effects. Mass LD is ok if it hits all play
This one may just be me, but I dislike infinite combos in EDH. I always feel lik, "Congratulations, you found a combo on the internet and stacked your deck with tutors to pull it off". It never feels like I was beat by a well designed deck, or by a good draw for them or bad draw for me. Just beat by a cheap trick that I could have done just as easy. If we all built decks like that, we wouldn't even need to really play, just see who draws their tutors/combo first and then start over.
This one may just be me, but I dislike infinite combos in EDH. I always feel lik, "Congratulations, you found a combo on the internet and stacked your deck with tutors to pull it off". It never feels like I was beat by a well designed deck, or by a g
It's the Indestructible on Ulamog that seals the deal. I've had numerous people complain to me about that as they hold their Wrath of God and glare angrily at me. Kozilek is at least vulnerable to removal. With all the ways to give dudes haste (I've tossed greaves on Eldrazi numerous times) as soon as they come into play, it makes them especially powerful and hard to deal with.
It's the Indestructible on Ulamog that seals the deal. I've had numerous people complain to me about that as they hold their Wrath of God and glare angrily at me. Kozilek is at least vulnerable to removal. With all the ways to give dudes haste (I've
The thing about Contamination is that it has an upkeep cost. Sacrifice a creature. Even with that card on the table, there are still ways to generate nonblack mana .
The occasional extra turn is fine now and again, but taking six turns in a row is just a dick move.
I have to agree with the Ulamog . Its not so much the destroy perm and Annihilator as it is the indestructible. As a general rule, I dislike Indestructible paired with other effects. Just on its own, Indestructible is hard to deal with.
Likewise, Darksteel Forge is beyond painful to deal with. Outside of stealing it for yourself, there are only three cards (AFAIK) in all of magic that will remove it from the table!
Maybe for the same reason Donating Celestial Dawn is legal. (Also a very dick move)The thing about Contamination is that it has an upkeep cost. Sacrifice a creature. Even with th
Ullamog with Greaves should be illegal. Indestructible, and untargetable? I saw a guy win a 5 player game by getting that out early and annihilating everyone's board. The other legendary Eldrazi aren't much fun wither, but hethe worst. I also find the New Phyrexia praetors (with the possible exception of Urabrask) also suck the fun right out of games.
Ullamog with Greaves should be illegal. Indestructible, and untargetable? I saw a guy win a 5 player game by getting that out early and annihilating everyone's board. The other legendary Eldrazi aren't much fun wither, but hethe worst. I also fin
Propaganda, Norn's Annex, Ghostly Prison and their ilk. They create bad, un-fun board states where no one wants to take any action. They can easy be replaced by more interactive cards that keep the game advancing.
Propaganda, Norn's Annex, Ghostly Prison and their ilk. They create bad, un-fun board states where no one wants to take any action. They can easy be replaced by more interactive cards that keep the game advancing.
I dislike mass land removal, it earns massive frown tech from my group. Whether it is in the form of land conversion, as mentioned previously, or outright destruction it is the only thing that I think I truly hate in Commander. I also think that cards that let you take extra turns should be banned (even though I have posted an X Turns in a Row deck) as I think it functionally removes players from the game in the same way as land removal.
I dislike mass land removal, it earns massive frown tech from my group. Whether it is in the form of land conversion, as mentioned previously, or outright destruction it is the only thing that I think I truly hate in Commander. I also think that ca
Ullamog with Greaves should be illegal. Indestructible, and untargetable? I saw a guy win a 5 player game by getting that out early and annihilating everyone's board. The other legendary Eldrazi aren't much fun wither, but hethe worst. I also find the New Phyrexia praetors (with the possible exception of Urabrask) also suck the fun right out of games.
I have an even worse Ulamog story I could share if you want more ammo against it. I was the guilty party and felt dirty and bad about winning that game.
I had Liliana of the Dark Realms chilling at 6 loyalty, ready to pop her ultimate with a bunch of swamps/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out. One of my opponents, who isn't very good at the game, played an enchantment that made it so creatures couldn't attack, preventing my other opponent from stopping me/Liliana. I popped her ultimate next turn and dropped Karn Liberated to exile that enchantment. Then I played a Solemn Simulacrum to ramp and Disciple of Bolas to draw me some cards. I drew into some beauty. Had Ulamog in hand already, drew into a Batterskull , Demonic Tutor , and a Swamp . I played the swamp as land for turn, tutored for Lightning Greaves and played it before passing turn. Next turn I draw into another swamp, play it, and then proceed to basically end the game. I had enough mana to hardcast Batterskull, hardcast Ulamog (destroying the better opponent's open mountain), equip Batterskull to Ulamog, equip greaves to Ulamog, and then swing for the fences. The guy scooped because all he was left with after Karn and Ulamog said hello was a single mountain and mono-red can't stop an Ulamog with a Batterskull attached to it. We then convinced the other guy to scoop because the game was over really at that point. He may have lived a turn or two, but he wasn't going to be able to stop me. This is possibly the second worst thing I've done in EDH. I felt really bad about it afterwards.
I have an even worse Ulamog story I could share if you want more ammo against it. I was the guilty party and felt dirty and bad about winning that game.I had Liliana of the Dark Realms chilling at 6 loyalty, ready
I have mentioned before, but I have a vendetta against Bruna, light of alabaster . Now, I have no problem at all if bruna is a card in the deck. As a general however, things quickly go to broken if she isn't counterspelled or removed immediately, and even if you remove bruna, she can go back to being the exact same monster next turn repeatedly. It gets particularly bad when you put greaves on her immediately, then attack, adding Battle Mastery , Spirit mantle and Eldrazi Conscription from either your hand, field, or graveyard. Not fun at all.
It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't grab enchants from the grave. Her ability also bypasses Shroud and triggers when she attacks OR blocks. Thats my main reason for hating on Bruna. Not even Zur the enchanter can do that
I have mentioned before, but I have a vendetta against Bruna, light of alabaster . Now, I have no problem at all if bruna is a card in the deck. As a general however, things quickly go to broken if she isn't counter
Darksteel Forge[/c] is beyond painful to deal with. Outside of stealing it for yourself, there are only three cards (AFAIK) in all of magic that will remove it from the table!
Still limits answers to Forge to blue, red, or white. A Green or black deck would be screwed with no way out.Iona fits along with Celestial dawn, and gets about as bad as Painter's servant if someone is playing mon
I dislike mass land removal, it earns massive frown tech from my group. Whether it is in the form of land conversion, as mentioned previously, or outright destruction it is the only thing that I think I truly hate in Commander. I also think that cards that let you take extra turns should be banned (even though I have posted an X Turns in a Row deck) as I think it functionally removes players from the game in the same way as land removal.
Extra turns can be dealt with if all players agree to a limit on the number of turns in a row of 2, 3, or 4.
Extra turns can be dealt with if all players agree to a limit on the number of turns in a row of 2, 3, or 4.
I'm actually fine with just about everything that people are bitching about in this thread: Ulamog, Bruna, etc. I do hate mass LD, though. The only time I ran mass land destruction was a Commander tournament. I then used Faith's Reward to get them all back and cruise to victory. I'd never do that in a regular game, though.
I'm actually fine with just about everything that people are bitching about in this thread: Ulamog, Bruna, etc. I do hate mass LD, though. The only time I ran mass land destruction was a Commander tournament. I then used Faith's Reward
I think you should play whatever you want to, in your commander deck. I'd stay clear of the banlist. But beyond that play what you want. The important thing is actually to match the decks in your area. If the folks you play with play just for kicks...then play just for kicks. If your group likes enormous plays and huge board swings: Resulting in the biggest most obscene plays do it.
Whenever something impressive happens, that's when magic memories are made.
I severely disagree with this attitude about being a care bear while playing Commander. I think the real problem is timing. Learn the timing of when to play the powerful cards. Don't play them at an early stage to shut the rest of the group down. Every deck has a weakness, pack plenty of answers and quit qq'ing.
I think you should play whatever you want to, in your commander deck. I'd stay clear of the banlist. But beyond that play what you want. The important thing is actually to match the decks in your area. If the folks you play with play just for kicks..
I think you should play whatever you want to, in your commander deck. I'd stay clear of the banlist. But beyond that play what you want. The important thing is actually to match the decks in your area. If the folks you play with play just for kicks...then play just for kicks. If your group likes enormous plays and huge board swings: Resulting in the biggest most obscene plays do it.
Whenever something impressive happens, that's when magic memories are made.
I severely disagree with this attitude about being a care bear while playing Commander. I think the real problem is timing. Learn the timing of when to play the powerful cards. Don't play them at an early stage to shut the rest of the group down. Every deck has a weakness, pack plenty of answers and quit qq'ing.
I could go on for hours... I guess the point is there are so many OP/stupid cards that the best thing that you can do is keep the ban list as small as possible. Amongst your play group you can outlaw cards if you please.
Most Overpoweredly Annoying Cards: Time Stretch Tooth and Nail Bribery Mana Crypt Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
I could go on for hours... I guess the point is there are so many OP/stupid cards that the best thing that you can do is keep the ban list as small as possible. Amongst your play group you can outlaw cards if you please.
Besides Bribery, I got no problem with the cards on that list.
Besides Bribery, I got no problem with the cards on that list.
I could go on for hours... I guess the point is there are so many OP/stupid cards that the best thing that you can do is keep the ban list as small as possible. Amongst your play group you can outlaw cards if you please.
I really don't think EDH is the format for you. You might want to go play modern or just casual in general. You obviously don't understand the idea behind the format, or how to format rules (100 card, singleton, 40 life points, ect.) help to alter the format to make many things not quite as powerful.
This goes for a few others in this thread as well. You people really need to either work on your deck building to be able to better counter some of these things you consider "to good" or just find another format.
I really don't think EDH is the format for you. You might want to go play modern or just casual in general. You obviously don't understand the idea behind the format, or how to format rules (100 card, singleton, 40 life points, ect.) help to alter th
Well, there are some that call them "Too good" and there are some cards that would be better decribed as "Bitch to deal with" The second category is exactly what EDH is all about, dealing with cards that in a normal game would be a bitch to deal with. Even within the format, everyone seems to have particular cards that they hate, but that is the nature of the game. Listing one or two cards you hate isn't bad, but making a list of 40 EDH staple cards?
Go play another format!
Anyway, back on topic, making a large list of staple cards, or a list of non EDH suited cards isn't what this is about. It is about picking particular cards that might be strong, but can easily flip the tide against you as well. Control, steal, counter, removal, Board wipe. These are the norm in the majority of EDH games.
Well, there are some that call them "Too good" and there are some cards that would be better decribed as "Bitch to deal with" The second category is exactly what EDH is all about, dealing with cards that in a normal game would be a bitch to deal with
So....EDH should be vanilla-creatures and spells only printed in common rarity? Sounds like a dragging-for-hours-without-fun time! And then nobody would complain! (No decent commons may be used, such as Counterspell and Disintegrate , though...someone may lose a game and nobody wants to lose a game in which somebody has to win eventually! Especially if they lose because an opponent played a card that affected them!)
Really, some cards are not fun to play against, and I bet you all run something that your opponents don't like to see because it might lead you to victory. What do you expect to happen when you play? I expect to win based on cards I use legally, not by my simple desire to not lose, eventually, by waiting for nothing to happen and we all concede that the game is a draw....
So....EDH should be vanilla-creatures and spells only printed in common rarity? Sounds like a dragging-for-hours-without-fun time! And then nobody would complain! (No decent commons may be used, such as Counterspell
Any praetor AS A GENERAL. You're setting yourself out as "that guy" when you do this. If you have Vorinclex or Jin-Gitaxias tucked away in your deck, it's not nearly as griefy.
Iona or Kaalia AS A GENERAL. Same thing. Kaalia isn't so bad on her own, but I can't help but think you're going to be playing Iona.
On the flip side, things not to put in an EDH deck because they're the new Wood Elemental :
Lightning Bolt and variants. LOL You have 40 life, so "hit for 20 before your opponent does" is not an option. On the other hand, something like Earthquake or even Pyroclasm has its uses.
Mental Misstep . Same problem. Plus, at 2-3 mana, you get many better counters.
Force of Will . Notice a pattern here? You're paying in card advantage when really or even should be available to you.
Ajani's Mantra : Unless you have a lot of lifegain triggers, most lifegain becomes irrelevant.
Any praetor AS A GENERAL. You're setting yourself out as "that guy" when you do this. If you have Vorinclex or Jin-Gitaxias tucked away in your deck, it's not nearly as griefy.Iona or Kaalia AS A GENERAL. Same thing. Kaalia isn't so bad on her own, b
I end up having to do slight alterations to my deck at times, simply so I can include a card or two to hose a particular deck. Just like I added Lignify , Song of Serenity , Spell Crumple , and Back to Nature in my U/G just to deal with Bruna, light of alabaster . I even ended up making a whole new deck, for no reason other then to deal with that one deck
I end up having to do slight alterations to my deck at times, simply so I can include a card or two to hose a particular deck. Just like I added Lignify , Song of Serenity , Sp
@mrhblue- no. adapt your deck to a meta, but playing a card just to hose a single deck shouldn't be necessary. note my actual wording... Your rephrase is a strawman.
I wish I could think of an example... Oh! Memoricide to hose a relentless rats deck. Doooshbag move. Maelstrom pulse or detention sphere or echoing truth... All have legitimate other uses in addition to combating the terror that is an OP Rat deck.
@mrhblue- no. adapt your deck to a meta, but playing a card just to hose a single deck shouldn't be necessary. note my actual wording... Your rephrase is a strawman.I wish I could think of an example... Oh! Memoricide to hose a relentless rats deck.
On occasion, I do Slaughter games Darksteel forge or bribery, simply cause it is a card I never want to hit the table. There are plenty of other targets I can choose with that.
Having a Zedru give Celestial Dawn to a non white deck is just being a jerk, putting it mildly.
Granted, my deck does run Contamination. But that is a card with the possibility of hosing every deck on the field, including your own unless your mono black.
On occasion, I do Slaughter games Darksteel forge or bribery, simply cause it is a card I never want to hit the table. There are plenty of other targets I can choose with that.Having a Zedru give Celestial Dawn to a non white deck is just being a jer
Most folks playing Zedruu, as it's clearly a "hug-ish" deck, are playing Celestial Dawn and donating it to the player who made the jerkiest move. I'd say about 90% of the Zedruu I see is tit for tat.
You play contamination...now you got plains.
You're playing a combo that's going off in 2 turns...now you got Pyromancer's Swath .
Most folks playing Zedruu, as it's clearly a "hug-ish" deck, are playing Celestial Dawn and donating it to the player who made the jerkiest move. I'd say about 90% of the Zedruu I see is tit for tat.You play contamination...now you got plains.You're
@mrhblue- no. adapt your deck to a meta, but playing a card just to hose a single deck shouldn't be necessary. note my actual wording... Your rephrase is a strawman. I wish I could think of an example... Oh! Memoricide to hose a relentless rats deck. Doooshbag move. Maelstrom pulse or detention sphere or echoing truth... All have legitimate other uses in addition to combating the terror that is an OP Rat deck.
There are strawmen all over this forum, but I find that most people wouldn't know what that means anyway. Frustrating, yeah?
Agreed on other points as well. Echoing Truth is a boss. That card saved me from certain death from a massive Storm Herd onslaught once, and I keep it in a couple of decks just for token strategies. However, playing nigh unplayable cards just to screw a single player's deck is silly to say the least.
As far as what not to play in EDH, two-card infinite/game-winning combos are frowned upon in my meta. The two biggest offenders I've seen are Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Curiosity and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion . People shouldn't feel good about themselves when they win this way. It only exposes their weaknesses in deckbuilding.
There are strawmen all over this forum, but I find that most people wouldn't know what that means anyway. Frustrating, yeah? Agreed on other points as well. Echoing Truth is a boss. That card saved me from cert
As far as what not to play in EDH, two-card infinite/game-winning combos are frowned upon in my meta. The two biggest offenders I've seen are Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Curiosity and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion . People shouldn't feel good about themselves when they win this way. It only exposes their weaknesses in deckbuilding.
I don't think having an instant-win combo is so bad, but building your deck towards only getting off that combo is kind of boring. I actually have the Mikaeus-Triskelion combo in a deck of mine, but that's only because it's such a grindy board control deck that I needed a way to end games that have gone on forever. Mikaeus isn't the commander, and I don't search them out until I'm getting tired of playing that game.
On the other hand, I did have the Niv-Mizzet deck for a while and took it apart because I was only playing to go infinite every time. It didn't do anything else besides draw cards to find a combo piece, then win out of nowhere. The problem (for me) wasn't that it was an infinite combo, but that the deck did nothing else. If I wasn't going off, I was just buying time until that happened.
I don't think having an instant-win combo is so bad, but building your deck towards only getting off that combo is kind of boring. I actually have the Mikaeus-Triskelion combo in a deck of mine, but that's only because it's such a grindy board contr
JBTM, I am the same situation. Mikaeus and Triskelion are also both IN my deck, but I rarely go for them, because I'm focused on other combos(like the one time I used Unholy Grotto and Desolate Lighthouse with a few zombie cards in my hand to draw pretty quickly). You wanna stop the Mik-skelion combo? Krosan Grip .
On the other aspect(hated card), I always hate Insurrection . I know I could easily stop it if I had the right deck, but I never am able to build a 'good' blue deck. *shrug* Doesn't change the fact that when I see it, I have a great deal of hate for the person who played it, lol.
JBTM, I am the same situation. Mikaeus and Triskelion are also both IN my deck, but I rarely go for them, because I'm focused on other combos(like the one time I used Unholy Grotto and Desolate Lighthouse
You wanna stop the Mik-skelion combo? Krosan Grip .
Oh gee, thanks for that. Good god I hate it when players insist on speaking in these ridiculous hypotheticals. Players talk as if they'll always have the right card in the right situation. You know that playing Krosan Grip doesn't ensure that it's in my hand at all times, right? Also, there are decks that are (shocker) not green. Regardless, I still maintain that two-card combos are beyond lame, whether you tutor it up or not.
Oh gee, thanks for that. Good god I hate it when players insist on speaking in these ridiculous hypotheticals. Players talk as if they'll always have the right card in the right situation. You know that playing Krosan Grip doesn't ensure that it's
Meh, two card wins are a bit silly when they are only good together. Kiki jiki is a great card on its own. Zealous conscripts too. So I would mind much for them to be in a deck. Kiki + pestermite? Not so much. the pestermite (and deceiver exarch) aren't playable, so why put them in a deck?
That's pretty much my philosophy in general. If the card only combos with the one other card in the deck, its a lame thing to include.
Meh, two card wins are a bit silly when they are only good together. Kiki jiki is a great card on its own. Zealous conscripts too. So I would mind much for them to be in a deck. Kiki + pestermite? Not so much. the pestermite (and deceiver exarch) are
Isn't that the same thing you're speaking in, Rx(hypotheticals)? And yes, it's less than a surprise to me that some EDH decks are not green. Besides, it just occurred to me...doesn't the Mik-skelion combo require one more piece...like a sac outlet ? Making it a three piece combo, which is even worse to implement.
*shrug* Just saying.
Isn't that the same thing you're speaking in, Rx(hypotheticals)? And yes, it's less than a surprise to me that some EDH decks are not green. Besides, it just occurred to me...doesn't the Mik-skelion combo require one more piece...like a sac out
Isn't that the same thing you're speaking in, Rx(hypotheticals)? And yes, it's less than a surprise to me that some EDH decks are not green. Besides, it just occurred to me...doesn't the Mik-skelion combo require one more piece...like a sac outlet ? Making it a three piece combo, which is even worse to implement.
Isn't that the same thing you're speaking in, Rx(hypotheticals)? And yes, it's less than a surprise to me that some EDH decks are not green. Besides, it just occurred to me...doesn't the Mik-skelion combo require one more piece...like a sac outlet ? Making it a three piece combo, which is even worse to implement.
*shrug* Just saying.
The combo took me some time to figure out as well.
What ends up happening, is that Triskelion deals 2 damage, then 1 to himself, he has no more counters and is a 1l1 with 1 damage marked on himself and thus dies. Mikaeus sees a creature dying with no +1l+1 counters and brings him back. At that point, well from the start really, it's infinite damage.
Don't play Collective Voyage against a Rikku deck. That's my input here XD
The combo took me some time to figure out as well.What ends up happening, is that Triskelion deals 2 damage, then 1 to himself, he has no more counters and is a 1l1 with 1 damage marked on himself and thus dies. Mi
The combo took me some time to figure out as well.
What ends up happening, is that Triskelion deals 2 damage, then 1 to himself, he has no more counters and is a 1l1 with 1 damage marked on himself and thus dies. Mikaeus sees a creature dying with no +1l+1 counters and brings him back. At that point, well from the start really, it's infinite damage.
Don't play Collective Voyage against a Rikku deck. That's my input here XD
That is how it works, but Triskelion actually has to shoot himself twice. Mikaeus is giving him +1/+1 so he's a base 2/2. The outcome is no different, but if you have to play it out it's important to know.
That is how it works, but Triskelion actually has to shoot himself twice. Mikaeus is giving him +1/+1 so he's a base 2/2. The outcome is no different, but if you have to play it out it's important to know.
That is how it works, but Triskelion actually has to shoot himself twice. Mikaeus is giving him +1/+1 so he's a base 2/2. The outcome is no different, but if you have to play it out it's important to know.
Mikaeus, via undying, gives an extra +1/+1 counter. Which can be eaten for 3 damage per iteration. But like you said, the outcome is no different. If someone's going to Sudden Spoiling or Krosan Grip , they're not going to let you tickle them for a few before doing so.
Mikaeus, via undying, gives an extra +1/+1 counter. Which can be eaten for 3 damage per iteration. But like you said, the outcome is no different. If someone's going to Sudden Spoiling or Krosan Grip
That is how it works, but Triskelion actually has to shoot himself twice. Mikaeus is giving him +1/+1 so he's a base 2/2. The outcome is no different, but if you have to play it out it's important to know.
Mikaeus, via undying, gives an extra +1/+1 counter. Which can be eaten for 3 damage per iteration. But like you said, the outcome is no different. If someone's going to Sudden Spoiling or Krosan Grip , they're not going to let you tickle them for a few before doing so.
Read the Card First.
Mikaeus, via undying, gives an extra +1/+1 counter. Which can be eaten for 3 damage per iteration. But like you said, the outcome is no different. If someone's going to Sudden Spoiling or Krosan Grip
Another two card combo that was used to plow the board the other day: Hellkite Charger + Sword of Feast and Famine . It was a four-player game and nobody had a single flyer to stop the massacre. I suppose it's slightly better than the combos discussed earlier, as it's contingent upon not having opposing blockers, but...I don't like it.
Another two card combo that was used to plow the board the other day: Hellkite Charger + Sword of Feast and Famine . It was a four-player game and nobody had a single flyer to st
This one may just be me, but I dislike infinite combos in EDH. I always feel lik, "Congratulations, you found a combo on the internet and stacked your deck with tutors to pull it off". It never feels like I was beat by a well designed deck, or by a good draw for them or bad draw for me. Just beat by a cheap trick that I could have done just as easy. If we all built decks like that, we wouldn't even need to really play, just see who draws their tutors/combo first and then start over.
You just made my day. Where in the hell are all the people that think like us?
You just made my day. Where in the hell are all the people that think like us?
This one may just be me, but I dislike infinite combos in EDH. I always feel lik, "Congratulations, you found a combo on the internet and stacked your deck with tutors to pull it off". It never feels like I was beat by a well designed deck, or by a good draw for them or bad draw for me. Just beat by a cheap trick that I could have done just as easy. If we all built decks like that, we wouldn't even need to really play, just see who draws their tutors/combo first and then start over.
You just made my day. Where in the hell are all the people that think like us?
You people really need to understand that people enjoy playing at different levels of competetiveness. Not all of us like playing with turds. You were beat by a well designed deck. Maybe the fact that you lost was because yours wasn't? Did that ever occur to you? Or do you need some one to knock you off of your high horse? And a deck that is built to win through combo is easier to stop. They are predictable and they have 2 maybe 3 pillars of victory. Knock out that pillar and they flop.
You just made my day. Where in the hell are all the people that think like us?[/quote]You people really need to understand that people enjoy playing at different levels of competetiveness. Not all of us like playing with turds.You were beat by a wel
My Kraj deck goes infinite (and without taking extra turns, either!) all the time FTW, and I came up with most of the combos in it myself. Sure, some are fairly basic, but Experiment Kraj + Devoted Druid + Gilder Bairn is awesome and fun, and I came up with it myself.
My Kraj deck goes infinite (and without taking extra turns, either!) all the time FTW, and I came up with most of the combos in it myself. Sure, some are fairly basic, but Experiment Kraj + Devoted Druid
Some people hate combos. That's just a fact. I myself am one of them because my meta doesn't play around combos typically. I used to have a Ghave, guru of spores deck that could cause infinite life gain for me, life loss for them, infinite mana, infinite guys and infinite P/T...all in one shot. People don't find infinite combos fun because you don't get to react. You just sit there and watch people combo off. It's not because their deck is worse than yours. If you really think mikaeus, the unhallowed + triskelion is more fun than cards like confusion in the ranks or things like that, that's your thing. I'd say a majority (even if it's only 51%) hate infinite combos. Myself included.
Some people hate combos. That's just a fact. I myself am one of them because my meta doesn't play around combos typically. I used to have a Ghave, guru of spores deck that could cause infinite life gain for me, lif
I cant think of an infinite combo that cant be interacted with. Some are harder than others yes. But they are interactive.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool . This is the kind that I don't like. I don't mind combos because there's always something you could have done to stop it. If not, it's your own fault for not running answers. What I have a problem with are things that lock everyone out of the game but don't even have the decency to just win. This lock in particular, if you don't have a counterspell for Teferi then you never get to do anything. Not any other kind of answer, because you won't get a chance to use it. It has to be a counter, and you have exactly one chance to have it before you stop getting to do things.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool .This is the kind that I don't like. I don't mind combos because there's always something you could have done to stop it. If not, it's your
Wow. That was a bit harsh. I sort of agree, as I like to actually play a game more than just win. I'd rather lose a game that last 20-30 turns than win one in 3. I enjoy playing Magic, and EDH especially. I don't like to play with infinite combo players.
But, you know what? They are out there. I deal with it. If we have 4-5 regular guys and one combo player, we ignore him in the game, and once he does his thing, we keep playing and make him wait a couple hours or however long it takes the real game to finish. I am an interactive gamer myself, and don't care for solitare unless it is a standard deck of cards.
But really dude, vent elsewhere. That was rude.
Wow. That was a bit harsh. I sort of agree, as I like to actually play a game more than just win. I'd rather lose a game that last 20-30 turns than win one in 3. I enjoy playing Magic, and EDH especially. I don't like to play with infinite combo play
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No more rude than player one telling player two they should "play another format" because player two prefers to play balanced, interactive decks rather than over-powered, solitaire decks.
About a month ago I was playing a three-player EDH game. I was playing my brand new Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck (not very powerful, but fun effects), one guy I let borrow my Ghave, Guru of Spores deck (pretty powerful with a few "combos", which are really just synergy, like Ghave and Martyr's Bond ) and the last guy was playing something U/x, I forget his General. Anyways, the Ghave player was pulling the right cards, building up his board and the U/x player decides to Control Magic my General. Now, my General (Karador) is key to my deck... it is built around him, so I proceed to sac my Qasali Pridemage to destroy the enchantment and get back my general. This upsets the U/x player. He said something about how he did it to urge me to use Pridemage to destroy on of the Ghave player's enchantments (the new enchantment from RTR that gives your creatures +3/+3) and I don't understand. If he wanted me to use my Pridemage on the Ghave player, why not just suggest it? And why target my General, which just gives me an additional possible target for the removal, and one that is more tempting for me on a personal level (he targeted my General after all, who is key to how my deck functions, and it's a deck I just built and haven't had a chance to test yet so I'm eager to actually play it as planned)? So I tell him it made no sense for him to use that particular action to get me to target the Ghave player instead of him, but quite the opposite... and you know what he says to me?
"Well, maybe you should play more EDH."
Rewind for a sec...
When I first sat down with these guys, I mentioned in passing that I don't get to play too often, maybe once every two to three weeks. The funny thing is throughout the course of that game and the next one, I had to call him out on mistakes regarding the rules. One was that enchantment that makes all creatures 1/1s and lose abilities. He argued that playing it made the Saprolings 1/1s again. But the 1/1s still got the +3/+3 boost, so they were still 4/4s. I forget the other rule agruement.
I found what this player said to me extremely rude. He basically said "You don't know what you're doing", then I proceeded to correct him on basic rules of the game. I'm just tired of the attitude of superiority a lot of players I encounter seem to have. I'm at the end of my rope, so yes, I'm gonna sound rude... but rude in response to rudeness directed at me first.
No more rude than player one telling player two they should "play another format" because player two prefers to play balanced, interactive decks rather than over-powered, solitaire decks.About a month ago I was playing a three-player EDH game. I was
Some people hate combos. That's just a fact. I myself am one of them because my meta doesn't play around combos typically. I used to have a Ghave, guru of spores deck that could cause infinite life gain for me, life loss for them, infinite mana, infinite guys and infinite P/T...all in one shot. People don't find infinite combos fun because you don't get to react. You just sit there and watch people combo off. It's not because their deck is worse than yours. If you really think mikaeus, the unhallowed + triskelion is more fun than cards like confusion in the ranks or things like that, that's your thing. I'd say a majority (even if it's only 51%) hate infinite combos. Myself included.
It's called Terminate , and if you aren't running good removal in Commander, then yes, your deck is demonstrably worse than the guy with the infinite combo. What decks are you playing that don't have any way to react to combo players?? Again, demonstrably worse. Get some help with your decks, don't make sweeping generalizations that simply aren't true.
Wow. That was a bit harsh. I sort of agree, as I like to actually play a game more than just win. I'd rather lose a game that last 20-30 turns than win one in 3. I enjoy playing Magic, and EDH especially. I don't like to play with infinite combo players.
But, you know what? They are out there. I deal with it. If we have 4-5 regular guys and one combo player, we ignore him in the game, and once he does his thing, we keep playing and make him wait a couple hours or however long it takes the real game to finish. I am an interactive gamer myself, and don't care for solitare unless it is a standard deck of cards.
But really dude, vent elsewhere. That was rude.
No one wins Commander games by turn 3 regularly; all the crazier combo stuff takes like 5+ turns to set up at least, and that's without people stopping you.
Seriously, you people are being ridiculous; there's so much hate available for any and all combos in existence that your complaints here are simply wrong. The worst part is that we all know that the minute Johnny Combo player gets his combo to actually work, the next 10 games of Commander the group plays start with him getting hosed by everyone else; there are politics involved in Commander, and you're all ignoring them to justify your whine-fest.
It's called Terminate , and if you aren't running good removal in Commander, then yes, your deck is demonstrably worse than the guy with the infinite combo. What decks are you playing that don't have any way to reac
For the record, my beef isn't so much about combo players, but players that both run insanely powerful decks and scoff at other players that choose to make less powerful decks because they prefer that type of game state...
You know, the whole "if your deck isn't as powerful as mine, you must suck at this game, so get better now by playing the same way I like to play" attitude.
For the record, my beef isn't so much about combo players, but players that both run insanely powerful decks and scoff at other players that choose to make less powerful decks because they prefer that type of game state...You know, the whole "if your
Yeah, that's just a dick attitude to have in general, certainly. Excuse me for not having hundreds of dollars to burn on a casual format, ya know, what with college, living expenses, and part-time work.
Yeah, that's just a dick attitude to have in general, certainly. Excuse me for not having hundreds of dollars to burn on a casual format, ya know, what with college, living expenses, and part-time work. :rolleyes:
I have to agree there. On another note, it is one thing to pull an infinite combo on like turn 15. By that time, anyone should at least have some form of answer. Pulling out a turn 5 or less infinite combo however isn't much fun at all for most players. My own does have one or two infinite combos, but I also run a hug deck, and both the combos in question are just silly by design. Mind over Matter + Jace's Archivist / Temple Bell + Psychosis crawler / Laboratory Maniac .
Someone is probably going to go for combo win at some point. Thats just the nature of the format. Some combo plays are easier to deal with then others, and as you play with others, you get to know what decks have what combo's, making you more prepared to deal with them. You should also ask yourself if a particular combo is a "That guy" sort of move, or something the entire table can just roll their eyes at. Also, did you earn the combo, or did you cheat it out? Hardcasting an Omniscience for example.
My Momir deck for example has a habit of completely derailing the game. More so if I pull off T1 Burgeoning followed by a T2 Collective Voyage. I play it not cause it can easily win the game, but because it spirals the board state into complete chaos. What happens after that you really can't get mad at, though few hands expect everyone at the table to have 8+ lands that early in the game.
If I play Shared fate the turn after that however, I deserve to be called a jerk.
I have to agree there. On another note, it is one thing to pull an infinite combo on like turn 15. By that time, anyone should at least have some form of answer. Pulling out a turn 5 or less infinite combo however isn't much fun at all for most playe
There are 2 combo deck I know of off hand that can reliably win by turn 3. Hermit Druid decks and Maralen of the Mornsong . Both of these decks are far too fast to handle unless you know that you are playing against them and mulligan into fast answers like Force of Will, Foil, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile or similar stuff. I agree that different player have different playstyles and most people don't have lots of money to spend on a casual format such as this one. But in Casual most players don't mind proxies or making a less powerful deck to accommodate lower budgets. I did this myself. I have a tendency to make very powerful combo/control decks that have a very high win percentage even under extreme hate however I have recently started toning it down a little cause newer players cant compete. I've even had to shelf one of my decks cause it never loses in my group and I do like a challenge. I'm a Jhonny/Spike but my combos are mostly all 1 card combos. I believe Tooth and Nail should be banned but I'm gonna play it till it is.
There are 2 combo deck I know of off hand that can reliably win by turn 3. Hermit Druid decks and Maralen of the Mornsong . Both of these decks are far too fast to handle unless y
I cant think of an infinite combo that cant be interacted with. Some are harder than others yes. But they are interactive.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool . This is the kind that I don't like. I don't mind combos because there's always something you could have done to stop it. If not, it's your own fault for not running answers. What I have a problem with are things that lock everyone out of the game but don't even have the decency to just win. This lock in particular, if you don't have a counterspell for Teferi then you never get to do anything. Not any other kind of answer, because you won't get a chance to use it. It has to be a counter, and you have exactly one chance to have it before you stop getting to do things.
Not infinite, and not uninteractive.
there are otherways to deal with the lock. Not many of which are good. But this is not an uninteractive combo. as you said I can counter teferi. There are cards that cycle. There are permanents you can play early that can disrupt the combo even after it lands. If this sort of thing is tearing up a meta, I would expect the meta to change.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool .This is the kind that I don't like. I don't mind combos because there's always something you could have done to stop it. If not, it's your
If this sort of thing is tearing up a meta, I would expect the meta to change.
So you hate out this deck. What about all the other combos? You can't hate them all out. One player has Teferi deck lock. He also has SHruum with Thopter Foundry and other combos, a Sekuar deck focusing Melira redcap, an Ob Nixilis deck sanguine bond/exquisite blood, Ghave deck with a bunch of combos in there, a Progenitus deck with Jace and Wheel of Sun and Moon comb, and I'm not going to go through all of this ONE player's 15 decks. And we all have blue decks which are ridiculously easy to take infinite turns with. There's 5 of us, each with 10-15 decks except me with 5 and another with 1. How are you suppose to hate out all of those combos?
So you hate out this deck. What about all the other combos? You can't hate them all out. One player has Teferi deck lock. He also has SHruum with Thopter Foundry and other combos, a Sekuar deck focusing Melira redcap, an Ob Nixilis deck sanguine bond
I cant really give you an answer to what amounts to an unanswerable question. You might well have asked "how do you beat an unbeatable deck?"
The answer is you cant beat the unbeatable. I guess that means you can't hate out every combo deck. But, being mature players, I would expect an attempt to best the combos encountered. I would expect a meta to adapt both in deck construction then with social pressure. If the answer cannot be found in those two options then you've encountered the "unbeatable deck."
I for one don't believe in such things as unbeatable decks.
I suppose don't understand the question. I cant really give you an answer to what amounts to an unanswerable question. You might well have asked "how do you beat an unbeatable deck?" The answer is you cant beat the unbeatable. I guess that means yo
You know what would make life super great? Is if the people who hate info combos find a playgroup with other people who don't like them, and the people who don't mind info combo or play info combo play in a different playgroup. Done is done.
You know what would make life super great? Is if the people who hate info combos find a playgroup with other people who don't like them, and the people who don't mind info combo or play info combo play in a different playgroup. Done is done.
All tyhe praetors to some extent draw groans from around the table. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger </a> are the only truly despisable ones though. The others add to a deck's level of dickishness, but those two automatically make your whole deck annoying to play against.
I might be drawing some fire here but I really hate Maze of Ith . If a whole table has mazes out then it's just about impossible for you to get value out of attacking with anything but token swarms. It also encourages land destruction which I don't suppouse I need to get into.
Pro tip: If somebody casts apocalypse or obliterate in a game of commander and you kick them in the shins nobody else at the table will mind that you did this.
All tyhe praetors to some extent draw groans from around the table. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
I carry Obliterate and Decree of annihilation in my commander sideboard. It all depends on what the meta is like. Oblitterate is still a very heavy handed card however. There are also a few generals which make you an almost instant target (Arcum anyone?)
Decree is a card that will almost always make the entire table facepalm if it resolves from hardcast, and the cantrip on it is just as hard to deal with. Not nearly as bad as worldfire however.
I carry Obliterate and Decree of annihilation in my commander sideboard. It all depends on what the meta is like. Oblitterate is still a very heavy handed card however. There are also a few generals which make you
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I might be drawing some fire here but I really hate Maze of Ith . If a whole table has mazes out then it's just about impossible for you to get value out of attacking with anything but token swarms. It also encourages land destruction which I don't suppouse I need to get into.
When I'm in the proper colors, I tend to put one or two pieces of targeted land destruction; stuff like Molten Rain or Choking Sands . People like to make blanket declarations about land destruction not being fun. I think targeted LD is fine.
When I'm in the proper colors, I tend to put one or two pieces of targeted land destruction; stuff like Molten Rain or Choking Sands . People like to make blanket declarations ab
I dislike infinite combos, but they are usually fine. The problem comes with decks that makes everybody on the table run counterspells which just makes the game boring. Lockdown is fine IF it effects everybody, I don't really mind Dust Drinker but Vorinclex is going to make you a major target. The other thing that I don't like is COMPLETELY locking somebody down, such as using Vesuvan Shapeshifter + Brine Elemental. Rest in Peace vs a graveyard deck is fine, it really hurts it but doesn't make it unplayable, sorry you can't hard cast Avatar of Woe. Most of these aren't that big of a problem because it is really easy to identify "That Guy" early on, gang up and take him out, even if you can't tell who it is the first game, the next time you will know.
I dislike infinite combos, but they are usually fine. The problem comes with decks that makes everybody on the table run counterspells which just makes the game boring. Lockdown is fine IF it effects everybody, I don't really mind Dust Drinker but V
Decree of annihilation , one exception for this though, if you have enchantments/suspended cards in play/exile that will win you the game. We used to play with a guy who would just cycle this to be a douche(he had no board pressence to win the game or any strategy to capatilize on mass LD) in a 6 player game and he always wondered: "hey why are you guys all ganging up on me now?" I hated it even though ironically it would win me games with my elf dragon combos out.
Decree of annihilation , one exception for this though, if you have enchantments/suspended cards in play/exile that will win you the game. We used to play with a guy who would just cycle this to be a douche(he had no bo
