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Flag Redrust October 19, 2012 6:07 PM PDT
Just thought I wanted some of your guy's opinion, it seems to me too good to be true , temporal mastery comes to mind, considering under any normal circumstances players draw 1 card per turn, so long it's not in your opening hand, extra turn for 2 mana and 1 mana terminus board wipe are insane.

how does one stop something like this, counter spell? Not everyone play blue, or have the correct counter, if its one of those "counter unless player pays x mana" that wouldn't work either due to the low cost of miracles, it seems like its all carrot and no stick 
Flag LunaStik October 19, 2012 6:14 PM PDT
Miracle is balanced. Sometimes, you will get a spell for cheaper (namely, when topdecked). However, if it is in your hand or if you don't draw it as your first card for the turn, it is actually overcosted.

Compare the cmc of Temporal Mastery to that of Time Warp
Flag Redrust October 19, 2012 6:21 PM PDT

Oct 19, 2012 -- 6:14PM, LunaStik wrote:

Miracle is balanced. Sometimes, you will get a spell for cheaper (namely, when topdecked). However, if it is in your hand or if you don't draw it as your first card for the turn, it is actually overcosted.

Compare the cmc of Temporal Mastery to that of Time Warp




thats just the thing, if it was in your opening hand, you might not keep it, so the default cast cost is almost always it's miracle cost. I can accept them if say, miracle halves the cast cost, but as it stands 1 or 2 mana spell that changes the entire dynamic of a game is just too much IMO

Flag Taldier October 19, 2012 6:38 PM PDT
Temporal Mastery isnt even that good, the formats with the tools to use it right have better options.  Terminus on the other hand is very powerful in the right deck.

I wouldnt say they are broken in contructed.  In limited they were definitely unbalanced.   One of several reasons Avacyn was a horrible draft/sealed format.
Flag will_dice October 19, 2012 6:39 PM PDT

 Just having to do mulligans more often is a drawback in itself. 


Even if you don't keep it in your opening hand, you may draw it in the first turn (no mana to cast it). If you draw it the second turn, it may be no better than a blue Explore .


The same for Terminus. Bord wipes are not something you just want to cast at any random turn's start. At least with Hallowed Burial you have some control of when to play it, instead of re


When the miracle comes at the right moment, it's awesome and game changing. If you draw it at a bad time, it's just as much of a overcosted dead card as is starting the game with it.

Flag perodequeso October 19, 2012 6:42 PM PDT

Oct 19, 2012 -- 6:39PM, will_dice wrote:

When the miracle comes at the right moment, it's awesome and game changing. If you draw it at a bad time, it's just as much of a overcosted dead card as is starting the game with it.



I was just going to say this.

Flag The_415_Raises_Gs October 19, 2012 7:32 PM PDT
Most miracles aren't broken , but a few are .
Flag Kiro October 19, 2012 7:38 PM PDT
Miracle cards and Brainstorm seem like really good friends. Or Sylvan Library / Mirri's Guile .
Flag Shadowchu October 19, 2012 8:26 PM PDT
Strong =/= Broken

If miracles were unbalanced you wouldn't be able to play without them and stay competitive.  
Flag RPJesus October 19, 2012 8:47 PM PDT

Oct 19, 2012 -- 7:38PM, Kiro wrote:

Miracle cards and Brainstorm seem like really good friends.



Inorite? So glad that terrible card finally found a use.

Also, while I think miracles are fine, I do think "balancing" "Amazing at the right time" with "mediocre to terrible otherwise" is kind of undesirable from a design standpoint .

Flag Weisse October 20, 2012 10:27 PM PDT

Oct 19, 2012 -- 8:47PM, RPJesus wrote:

Oct 19, 2012 -- 7:38PM, Kiro wrote:

Miracle cards and Brainstorm seem like really good friends.



Inorite? So glad that terrible card finally found a use.

Also, while I think miracles are fine, I do think "balancing" "Amazing at the right time" with "mediocre to terrible otherwise" is kind of undesirable from a design standpoint .



Yeah, I wouldn't call the miracle effect "balanced". Doesn't mean they aren't playable, of course. Bad mechanic overall IMO.

Flag bay_falconer October 21, 2012 10:37 AM PDT
It's kinda "good if you get it right, bad if you don't". And you can't really use it with something like Phyrexian Arena or Curiosity .
Flag Kiro October 21, 2012 4:53 PM PDT

Oct 21, 2012 -- 10:37AM, bay_falconer wrote:

It's kinda "good if you get it right, bad if you don't". And you can't really use it with something like Phyrexian Arena or Curiosity .




I don't know, I don't really see this as much of a problem. You're just slightly restricted in what kind of draw you want to run in your deck. But between Brainstorm , Sensei's Divining Top , Sylvan Library , Mystical Tutor , Jace, the Mind Sculptor , Telling Time there seem to be an awful lot of tournament caliber draw/tutor/card-quality spells, that all work really well with Miracle.

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