Casual is vague with banned/restricted cards. Mostly it boils down to 'is my group fine with this?', and each group has different opinions on this. Hell, most of my lists are Legacy-level, but i've also got a few Pauper lists handy too just incase I want to tone it down.
Also, his group might all be of similar ilk, running equally good cards. It's bad to judge casual decks with no knowledge of the players group and metagame.
ruining it by playing overpowered cards is super weak.
Demonic is not broken. It's very good, but not broken. Unless he has some insane stuff to search for, it's just very good.
agreed demonic is not broken. its undercosted not overpowered - as long as its not a combo deck.
its still cheating tho. using it is too easy, and if the group allows it they shouldnt.
it isnt so powerful that it ruins the game, but it does make for extremely poor deckbuilding, because some choices that are supposed to be hard suddenly becomes far too easy.
agreed demonic is not broken. its undercosted not overpowered - as long as its not a combo deck.
its still cheating tho. using it is too easy, and if the group allows it they shouldnt.
it isnt so powerful that it ruins the game, but it does make for extremely poor deckbuilding, because some choices that are supposed to be hard suddenly becomes far too easy.
It's power level is entirely dependant on what you can search for. If you took four demonic tutors and stuck it in a terrible deck, it would just be able to find terrible cards. Tutors are generally used as "replacment cards" i.e. "I will replace this card with a card I need." That isn't over-powered, espescially in this deck.
Also, it's a little presumptous of you to dictate how his playgroup should function.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant...
but where DID the other fork come from? Spoiler:Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before.
I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before.
Boy was I in for a treat.
When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another!
before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours.
His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch.
My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
being able to search for a threat, permanent removal or a sweep for just 2 mana is more powerful than it should be and itmeans he wont have to try and get just the right distribution.
using a card like that is dumb magic, a play group might as well decide to not care about the color of mana.
nothing presumptous about having an opinion about proper way of doing things and letting people know what the right way of doing things is.
being able to search for a threat, permanent removal or a sweep for just 2 mana is more powerful than it should be and itmeans he wont have to try and get just the right distribution.
using a card like that is dumb magic, a play group might as well decide to not care about the color of mana.
nothing presumptous about having an opinion about proper way of doing things and letting people know what the right way of doing things is.
It is none of your business how people play this game. You think it's cheating or cheap, fine, don't play with the power nine. But Don't presume you know enough to tell other people how to enjoy this game. It's bigger than that.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant...
but where DID the other fork come from? Spoiler:Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before.
I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before.
Boy was I in for a treat.
When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another!
before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours.
His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch.
My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
Wow... did someone get abused by a Demonic Teacher in thier youth or something? That's an opinion about the use, effectiveness, and intelligence of running Demo Tutor, and I think you will find yourself in VERY little company with that opinion. But it is an opinion, and I respect it, and still respect you, I just hope no one takes you to seriously. Cause, well, WOW...
@sacrifice: saying you respect my opinion and using that rhetoric is being overtly hypocritical - its not pretty
but it certainly does seem im in the minority - doesnt stop me from being right though
what can i say - way back when i started out planing decks and playing with selfprinted cards, i too stooped to using P9 and i even thought it meant i was a good player. As i came to understand more about the game and costing cards i turned away from this praxis. These early cards marred the game, which i consider a feat of balance even if i dont always agree on where they have so far decided to balance the scales. And I do reserve the right to attempt to make people see the error of their ways, even if i can understand that it would be annoying to actually own one and not be able to use it.
@sacrifice: saying you respect my opinion and using that rhetoric is being overtly hypocritical - its not pretty
but it certainly does seem im in the minority - doesnt stop me from being right though
what can i say - way back when i started out planing decks and playing with selfprinted cards, i too stooped to using P9 and i even thought it meant i was a good player. As i came to understand more about the game and costing cards i turned away from this praxis. These early cards marred the game, which i consider a feat of balance even if i dont always agree on where they have so far decided to balance the scales. And I do reserve the right to attempt to make people see the error of their ways, even if i can understand that it would be annoying to actually own one and not be able to use it.
Fair enough.
Hypothetical: If he uses Vampiric Tutor instead, would that be alright?
Also, I don't think Demonic Tutor can be all that powerful nowadays if it gets reprinted in a Duel Deck.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant...
but where DID the other fork come from? Spoiler:Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before.
I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before.
Boy was I in for a treat.
When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another!
before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours.
His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch.
My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
I totally get where you're coming from, I just don't agree that you're RIGHT about it. You have your own OPINION, and by no means does it make your argument RIGHT. I agree that at 2 mana, it's a bit overpowered, and hence why it was restricted or banned in all formats. But "dumb magic"? Seems pretty smart to me. "Wrong" way to play? There is NO RIGHT WAY to play this game, as long as you're sticking to the rules. That's a fundamental concept that's built into the game on purpose. (To keep all of of us arguing over stuff like this .)
Anyhoo, while this could (has?) turn into a huge debate that'd I'd love to see, we're getting way off the OP topic. Let's all try to let it go and just be friends.
Wow, this post really blew up. I don't think I will be using demonic tutor in this deck. I am going to put 2 more creatures in this deck with lower mana cost. I understand that I have a high mana cost for most of my cards, so I am going to thin it down a little. Anyone know if there is black ramp besides dark ritual . I think I am going to put in orzhov signet or when the keyrune comes out it too.
As for this discussion about demonic tutor, I play with a gorup of friends who don't care about banned cards and allow whatever we can afford to have in the deck. I do think of who I am playing with before a pull out a deck to play them. If I am playing against someone at a shop I wouldn't be pulling these decks out to play them, unless they knew I had it.
.)
