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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 11:10AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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At this point the best counterspell in the format is izzet charm, and it doesn't even hit creatures. I wouldn't care about cavern so much if wizards would (a) print a 3-mana "exile target spell" or if one of the most powerful creatures in the format wasn't hexproof.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0  Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 2:09PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2010
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oh please just cuz your archetype isnt dominant you are gonna QQ? First, if it hadnt been for CoS it would have been a totally awesome meta of delver and delver from Inn thru RtR. Second its drawback of colorless mana for creatures of the not named type as well as ALL non creature spells is enuf to hold it back substantially. Its gonna be used likely by 2 decks Zombies and maybe Humans because of he diversity of creatures in RtR.
Also control had its time in he sun quite a bit until the INN block between U/W, U/B and Caw-Blade. And just because control cant counter every spell its opponent casts doesnt mean it cant be played, control players will just have to adjust to use more discard/removal/tuck spells. Considering the mana base is strong enuf to run 3 colors easily and splashing a forth is doable that opens up a ton of options for control oher than counters. Might be control players have to spend time brewing rather than just shoving the best counters and card draw in with the bomb of choice.
Also 5 uncounterable spells does not balance control especiall since one of them itself is useless to all but control.
And lastly i love, JUST LOVE, when control player complain about a lack of interaction which is exactly what they seek to do to other players.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 6:01PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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Ebontail, you don't know what interaction means.
Counterspells and control generally are highly interactive - the reason people hate them is because they interact too much. People like to be able to do their own thing without their opponent interfering.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 6:09PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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Also, Caw Blade wasn't Control.
Also, Cavern had no impact on Delver other than making it stronger; Thragtusk (to some extent) plus the rotation of Ponder and Phantasmal Image essentially killed the archetype anyway.
Control decks now take LESS effort to build because answers are so poor - instead they just take the best sweepers available, the best threats (Thragtusk + Angel) and the best card draw and jam it together. Which is exactly the (false) complaint you level against pre-rotation control, which didn't actually exist.
You're welcome to hate playing against Control because they don't let you enjoy your games, but at least be accurate in your criticism before you shoot your mouth off about things you are factually incorrect on.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 8:33AM
#15
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Also, Caw Blade wasn't Control. Also, Cavern had no impact on Delver other than making it stronger; Thragtusk (to some extent) plus the rotation of Ponder and Phantasmal Image essentially killed the archetype anyway. Control decks now take LESS effort to build because answers are so poor - instead they just take the best sweepers available, the best threats (Thragtusk + Angel) and the best card draw and jam it together. Which is exactly the (false) complaint you level against pre-rotation control, which didn't actually exist. You're welcome to hate playing against Control because they don't let you enjoy your games, but at least be accurate in your criticism before you shoot your mouth off about things you are factually incorrect on.
DING!
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think. 
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 9:38AM
#16
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:08AM
#17
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Ebontail, you don't know what interaction means. Counterspells and control generally are highly interactive - the reason people hate them is because they interact too much. People like to be able to do their own thing without their opponent interfering.
Interacting with permanents is no different from interacting with spells, except that same permanent can have interactions over multiple turns..
Also screw cavern of souls. Because its mere existence is preventing people from building their decks right. who cares if it actually does something (which it doesnt)
If you aren't playing tribal, Cavern can actually hurt you, since it will produce colorless mana for the other creatures.
It actually ALWAYS screws over the colors of your noncreature SPELLS.
"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Proud member of the Rakdos guild
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 11:32AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2010
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i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive. Sure counters allow their player to interact with spells rather than just permanents but for the opponent it severly limits any interactivity. And, read again, i didnt say counters werent interactive i said controls object is to limit their opponent interactivity, by removing any significant means of doing such.
Also how is Caw not control? yeah it gets an aggressive creature out early and slaps a sword on them but once thats accomplished they sit back and use JMS and counters to control the game. The only difference between that and traditional control is that your threat comes down early rather than later. Sure that gives it an aggro feel but when you look at it it plays much more like cintrol than say RDW or zombies.
And to say cavern had no impact on delver is just nonsense, snapcaster gave delver 8-12 counters off of 4-6 spells and when you add resto angel to the mix it would have been as oppressive as caw-blade, having an early threat and a way to essentially turn your GY into an extension of your hand with which to grind your opponent into nothing with the added card advantage.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 12:20PM
#19
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uninteractive is playing end step deceiver exarch untap and play splinter twin.... fun game
my point is that combo decks are typically that which is uninteractive. the control player holding up mana for a counterspell is interacting insofar as he needs to respect the fact that his opponent will have activity which may need to be answered, thus he leaves open resources to deal with those activities.
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 1:11PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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i must disagree with you Indigo, i dont consider passing turn after turn because my opponent has a mana leak in the GY and snapcaster in hand as interactive.
Frankly, this just means that you're bad. You have to learn to play through counter-magic, not just around it. I find it quite amusing that people somehow equate "my opponent has a counter" with "my spells don't exist." If people would just learn how to play against Blue, all of these problems would go away.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0 Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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