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let's say I have both quicksilver elemental and experiment kraj in play. I also have a Shivan Dragon with a +1/+1 counter on it. if I activate the elemental targetting kraj, will it gain firebreathing? 

is the answer different if the roles of kraj and the elemental are reversed? that is, if the elemental has a counter and  gains firebreathing from a non-countered dragon, does Kraj get it too?

Yes it would.  At the time you activated the quicksilver elemental the experiment kraj had firebreathing, so it too would gain firebreathing until end of turn.

Oct 6, 2012 -- 12:21PM, Segoth wrote:

Yes it would.  At the time you activated the quicksilver elemental the experiment kraj had firebreathing, so it too would gain firebreathing until end of turn.

yeah I realized after I posted it that the real question I had was the reverse, since Kraj's static ability is what I really wanted to know. edited that in.

 

It would be the same answer.  Since kraj has all activated abilities of creatures with a +1/+1 counter on it and since at that time the elemental has firebreathing and a +1/+1 counter on it the kraj would have firebreathing as well.

Oct 6, 2012 -- 12:28PM, Segoth wrote:

It would be the same answer.  Since kraj has all activated abilities of creatures with a +1/+1 counter on it and since at that time the elemental has firebreathing and a +1/+1 counter on it the kraj would have firebreathing as well.

cool, thanks.

as a follow-up, say I had two Krajs, both with +1/+1 counters. if I also had a dragon with a counter on it, how many copies of the firebreathing ability would each Kraj have?

 

Yes and yes. The gaining and losing of abilities through continous effects (like Kraj and Quicksilver have) is applied in the same layer. Normally, within a layer, the effects are applied in timestamp order. But here the conditions for dependency are fulfilled: a) the effects are applied in the same layer, b) neither is a characteristic defining ability and c) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to. That means, that the independent effect is applied before the dependent one, the independent one being the one gaining the firebreathing ability from the dragon.

I have yet to check, if there could be a dependency loop here.

Oct 6, 2012 -- 12:33PM, razorborne wrote:

as a follow-up, say I had two Krajs, both with +1/+1 counters. if I also had a dragon with a counter on it, how many copies of the firebreathing ability would each Kraj have?

 

Putting aside the fact the experiment kraj is a legendary and would be put into it's owners graveyard for having more than one on the battlefield, each kraj would gain firebreathing twice.  One for the dragon, and one for each other.

Yeah nylon has it right.  Each kraj would apply it's effects in timestamp order, as stated below.  In most cases multiple instances of activated abilities are redundant, however there is always the exception .

Oct 6, 2012 -- 12:33PM, razorborne wrote:

as a follow-up, say I had two Krajs, both with +1/+1 counters. if I also had a dragon with a counter on it, how many copies of the firebreathing ability would each Kraj have?

 

Hello . Kraj 1 depends on Kraj 2 and Kraj 2 depends on Kraj 1. Kraj 1 (the one with the earliest timestamp) will get one instance of firebreathing from shivan and one additional instance of "tap: put counter" from Kraj 2. Kraj 2 will get one instance of firebreathing from Shivan, another instance of firebreathing from Kraj 1 and two additional instances of "tap: put counter" from Kraj 1.

So Kraj 1 ends up with one instance of firebreathing and two instances of "tap: put counter". Kraj 2 ends up with two instances of firebreathing and three instances of "tap: put counter".