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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 8:38AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2009
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think you misunderstood what i was saying. All i m saying is that even if you don't explicitly spell the word counter on the card, players can still use counter all they want. So if the counter doesn't have actual counting values or purposes, i don't see the neccessity to spell it out and leave for the player to decide how they want to remember it. Again, they are already doing it and they do it all the time.  (i have read some pro player even put a counter on top of their opponent's deck to remind them paying for the pact in some match report pretty recently...)
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry MLP
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 11:13AM
#42
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Again: When it's a minor memory issue, leaving it up to the players is probably a fine idea. 1-turn issues are common and unavoidable. Summoning sickness, damage, detain, etc. all work fine.
Anything that lasts 1 turn or less isn't going to need a counter.
When it's a major one (ie. you have a block mechanic which involves major multi-turn memory issues, such as unlocking a new ability permanently), then you ought to build in some way to keep track of it. Which is precisely what counters are for.
You could do without the counters, and let the players independently come to the conclusion that they need counters... but why?
When something is going to be needed by 99% of players, you should probably design the rules to accomodate.
Would you publish the following ability:
Reviving (When this creature dies, if it didn't enter the battlefield from the graveyard, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control)?
EDIT: Back on topic, I really like the idea of creatures that grow when they tap. To me, green schooling would be all about unlocking your true potential; so I'd be tempted to have fast growth up to a predefined limit.
I also like the suggestion of having new abilities get unlocked under the right circumstances.
Are you using counters for anything in this block already?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 11:47AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2009
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So i guess you are suggesting:
Reviving (When this creature dies, if it didn't enter the battlefield from the graveyard, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control. Put a counter on it so you remember where it came from.)
I can see persist and undying is taking advantage of the counter for memory purposes. But if they would really Strictly want it to work without +1/+1 or -1/-1, then they will just make dummy counters? Can we at least agree that's ugly?
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry MLP
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Congratulations, you've found My Lie Policy:
Only when i'm prompted, i might lie. (policy still in the refinement process.)
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 11:58AM
#44
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So i guess you are suggesting:
Reviving (When this creature dies, if it didn't enter the battlefield from the graveyard, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control. Put a counter on it so you remember where it came from.)
I can see persist and undying is taking advantage of the counter for memory purposes. But if they would really Strictly want it to work without +1/+1 or -1/-1, then they will just make dummy counters? Can we at least agree that's ugly?
It's ugly. That's why they use +1/+1 and -1/-1s for it, because it's a bit more elegant.
Honestly I'd generally use +1/+1 counters to unlock abilities, if it doesn't cause other issues. However, if it DOES cause other issues I'd use a flavourful counter type, like the Divinity Counters from Kamigawa.
ie. I'd have: Reviving (When this creature dies, if it doesn't have a death counter, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a death counter on it.)*
*I'd also consider Mortality Counters. Or, Life counters, which they start with and lose upon entering the graveyard: and Cats start with 9 of)
Because while using a counter that has no other meaning (and doesn't actually count) is undesirable, not using a counter at all for something with big memory issues is worse.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 1:28PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2007
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I think the best reason to use +1/+1 counters rather than simple named counters is that when you want to find other ways to enable the ability you can simply throw some +1 counters elsewhere in the set without being parasitic.
But as to your question, there's no reason not to use +1/+1 counters whatsoever. I kept them to a minimum for my token themed set because tokens with counters are awkward, an so I intended for counters to play a bigger part in this set right from the start.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 8:25PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2007
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Latest refinement, and the one I'm happy to use: Gladehorn Yearling   Creature - BeastPotential 1 (Whenever this creature untaps, if it has less than one +1/+1 counter on it, put a +1/+1 counter on it.)Gladehorn Yearling has hexproof as long as it has at least one +1/+1 counter on it. 3/2Longbow Initiate  Creature - Centaur ArcherPotential 2 (Whenever this creature untaps, if it has less than two +1/+1 counters on it, put a +1/+1 counter on it.)Longbow Initiate has reach as long as it has two or more +1/+1 counters on it. 1/3All creatures with this template would get their special abilities only when they're at full potential. Also thinking of creatures that remove their own +1/+1 counters to do useful stuff, and wondering what the best wording would be for a version of Potential without any limits. Using the phrase "Unlimited Potential" sounds cool, but isn't really rules 
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 9:12PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2009
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I like this a lot. So elegant.
Just a bit of nitpick... I don't think you want reach once Longbow got to 3/5. You probably want to attack with that body. It just feels slightly irrelevant. Might as well give it trample.
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry MLP
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Congratulations, you've found My Lie Policy:
Only when i'm prompted, i might lie. (policy still in the refinement process.)
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
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I am Blue/Green
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 9:21PM
#48
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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There's nothing stopping you from adding rules for "unlimited potential."
By the way, the wording is "becomes untapped."
Embrace imagination.
Lord of YMtC | Ten Rounds Contest Winner
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Each of its nine tails is imbued with supernatural power, and it can live for a thousand years.
My Standard deck: Setting SunThink of how Neo couldn't beat the robots, but they kept him around anyways to defeat Agent Smith. Sure, the robots might not like having a Neo running rampant because instead of playing their favorite 4 drop fatty robot, they have to play a bunch of one mana Matrixs to contain him, but at least Neo keeps Agent Smith from reanimating an Iona on turn two.
Are you saying I'm trying to blame my loss on something? I don't care that I lost, I care that he's a sore loser, and a cheater, and a liar.
CKY, are you bad at anything?
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.
I mean, In KevinWorld, Mark is reading the very words I'm typing as well. Heck, in KevinWorld maybe I am Mark.
I'm beginning to think CKY may be anime in real life...
Don't go anywhere CKY, I need to crash dramatically through your window and propose marriage and I don't want you throwing off my paradrop.
[In response to a thread about how hard grading is]
Upon reading this, I've found myself completely unable to operate in the world. I tried to decide what to eat for breakfast, and pondered the vast consequences of my choice. How do I balance my dietary needs against my desire to eat good-tasting food? Should I factor in how long it takes to prepare? Cereal is ready in moments, but bacon takes longer to cook.
Then there is the impact on other industries. Do people in the cereal industry deserve to be employed more than people in the bacon industry? Which industry should I support? I don't even have the data regarding HOW MUCH the cereal industry benefits from me eating a bowl of cereal, or how much the bacon industry benefits from me eating a side of bacon. How can I compare two qualities I can't even quantify?
And let's not forget the milk on the cereal. In addition to determining whether or not milk is healthy for me, how much that benefits the milk industry, and how much the people in the milk industry deserve my support, we have to factor in the fact that cows are put under brutal conditions in order to collect thier milk. Of course, the same goes for the pigs, and then they get killed. Of course, I really like bacon. So I need to come up with a scale that compares the value of cow happiness to pig happiness to my happiness. What trade-offs am I willing to make here? Does the fact that the pig gets put out of its misery count as a plus or a minus? Isn't bacon bad for me anyway?
Deciding what to eat for breakfast (or any meal) is impossible. Help me!
I must admit chinkeeyong, you have the most interesting character ideas; and you play them well.
Anyway, you'd be surprised about Time Stop. When I first saw that card as a relatively new player I didn't see its full potential until I read the reminder text. Is it that unintuitive, though? Mine I mean. What is possibility? Is it possible for me to type these words with my tusks? No, because I don't have tusks. Although I am now tempted to go buy some - obviously not from poachers or whatever - and use them as typing apparatus. I could be the best secretary ever. "What's your words per minute sir?" "Well, only six, but I use these tusks to type them." "You're hired!" That was the interview. And is anyone else disappointed that "apparati" is not the plural form of apparatus? I just could strangle a dictionary, because "apparatuses" is a real word. I guess it sounds pretty cool. I'll call them my Apparatusks.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 9:31PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 10:11PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2010
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I like it. The Potential X giving counters if you already have less than X is a little awkward. The only way I see arouind it is to change the name of the abiliy to make it more obvious that X is the number it grows into and maxes out at. Potential kind of works but I wonder if a name change could solve the only problem I see with the mechanic. Aside from Unlimited Potential there's also potential X. Here's what I have in mind: Group Learner (please change the name) Creature - Lets just say humanPotential X (Whenever this creature untaps, if it has less than two +1/+1 counters on it, put a +1/+1 counter on it. X is equal to the number of creatures you control)Longbow Initiate has reach as long as it has two or more +1/+1 counters on it. 1/1
Edit- This would actually be better as a 2 drop so you can drop a mana dork first turn. Also I want to see a 0 power deathtoucher with Potential.
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