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Switch to Forum Live View RTR Grave Betrayal question
9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 2:06PM #11
kahtfish
Date Joined: Jul 19, 2012
Posts: 46
I see, thanks.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 3:13PM #12
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,414
Lets break it down.

Whenever a creature you don't control dies, return it to the battlefield under your control with an additional +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

This is a triggered ability (CR603.1)

[At/When/Whenever] [CONDITION], [EFFECT]

in this specific case

[Whenever] [CONDITION= a creature you don't control dies], [EFFECT= return it to the battlefield under your control with an additional +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.]

The Effect of the trigger sets up a delayed trigger (CR603.7)

[At] [CONDITION=  the beginning of the next end step], [EFFECT= return it to the battlefield under your control with an additional +1/+1 counter on it at the beginning of the next end step. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.]

the delayed trigger's Effect does two things.
1) a One-Shot Effect (CR610) - moving the card to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter
2) a Continuous Effect (CR611) - making it black and creature subtype zombie

no duration is specified for the continuous effect and it occurs from a resolving ability so it lasts until the end of the game (CR611.2a)
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 7:53PM #13
dslatimore
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Posts: 1,412
So, whenever rules text is all listed on the same line, it's considered a single ability?  (excepting keyword abilities appearing on the same line)
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 7:55PM #14
dslatimore
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Posts: 1,412

Oct 5, 2012 -- 7:53PM, dslatimore wrote:

So, whenever rules text is all listed on the same line, it's considered a single ability?  (excepting keyword abilities appearing on the same line)




Nevermind, found the rule:


112.2c. An object may have multiple abilities. If the object is represented by a card, then aside from certain defined abilities that may be strung together on a single line (see rule 702, "Keyword Abilities"), each paragraph break in a card's text marks a separate ability. If the object is not represented by a card, the effect that created it may have given it multiple abilities. An object may also be granted additional abilities by a spell or ability. If an object has multiple instances of the same ability, each instance functions independently. This may or may not produce more effects than a single instance; refer to the specific ability for more information.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 8:56PM #15
ikegami
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 2,258
Yes, but abilities can be composed of other abilities. Two linked abilities are on the same lines sometimes, delayed triggered abilities are part of other abilities, and keyword abilities can represent more than one abilities.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 10:21PM #16
dslatimore
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Posts: 1,412

Oct 5, 2012 -- 8:56PM, ikegami wrote:

Yes, but abilities can be composed of other abilities. Two linked abilities are on the same lines sometimes, delayed triggered abilities are part of other abilities, and keyword abilities can represent more than one abilities.





Can you give an example of two linked abilities on the same line (that aren't keyword abilities)?  I want to know how to identify those.

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 10:39PM #17
ikegami
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 2,258
I was thinking of

607.1a An ability printed on an object within another ability that grants that ability to that object is still considered to be “printed on” that object for these purposes.


but that's not an ability in another.

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 11:20PM #18
Argus_Panoptes
  • Trumps Judges
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 5,220

Oct 5, 2012 -- 10:21PM, dslatimore wrote:

Oct 5, 2012 -- 8:56PM, ikegami wrote:

Yes, but abilities can be composed of other abilities. Two linked abilities are on the same lines sometimes, delayed triggered abilities are part of other abilities, and keyword abilities can represent more than one abilities.





Can you give an example of two linked abilities on the same line (that aren't keyword abilities)?  I want to know how to identify those.



Rowen

603.10. Some objects have a static ability that's linked to a triggered ability. (See rule 607, "Linked Abilities.") These objects combine both abilities into one paragraph, with the static ability first, followed by the triggered ability. A very few objects have triggered abilities which are written with the trigger condition in the middle of the ability, rather than at the beginning.
Example: An ability that reads "Reveal the first card you draw each turn. Whenever you reveal a basic land card this way, draw a card" is a static ability linked to a triggered ability.



And abilities (other than keyword abilities) are separated by paragraph breaks, not line breaks.

No, I am not a judge.  That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 06, 2012 - 3:13AM #19
jeff-heikkinen
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Date Joined: Aug 13, 2001
Posts: 8,385

Oct 5, 2012 -- 11:20PM, Argus_Panoptes wrote:


And abilities (other than keyword abilities) are separated by paragraph breaks, not line breaks.


This might set a new pedantry record for this forum, and that's no small achievement.

Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 06, 2012 - 9:07AM #20
Argus_Panoptes
  • Trumps Judges
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 5,220

Oct 6, 2012 -- 3:13AM, jeff-heikkinen wrote:

This might set a new pedantry record for this forum, and that's no small achievement.



I would think that setting a pedandry record would require
A) Having the nitpick as an entire post.
B) Nitpicking an issue that has never led to confusion:

Unless a player has Book Burning
deal 6 damage to him or her, put
the top six cards of target player's
library into his or her graveyard.


No, I am not a judge.  That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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