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Oct 5, 2012 -- 9:59AM, rstnme wrote:

Why would an opponent let the beast master pump all your attackers then kill it? This is how it would work:

1. You declare your attack phase
2. You giant growth your beast master into a 4/4
3. Your opponent responds with Auger Spree 
4. Auger Spree Resolves, killing the beast master as an 8/0
5. You declare attackers (no beastmaster bonus) 

??? 

First off, I personally would not pump my Beastmaster until the ability of the Beastmaster was on the stack, since there is very little that shrinks a creature in this format at instant speed, so I would not Growth it until then. 

Second, I said I was going to try and explain it In the context of what he was saying, not what would normally be done.  He seemed to be asking, at least to how I read it, what would happen if the creature were killed by some kind of effect like Stab Wound (though he admits Stab Wound was a silly mistake to use) when attackers were declared (or as I took it, when the ability was stacked).  I tried to give the best possible response in that scenario, given that I was not sure at the time myself and had to look it up.

Oct 5, 2012 -- 11:03AM, rstnme wrote:

bold words  

So basically, in a scenario that wouldn't happen, what was suggested could happen wouldn't happen. No need to get testy about it.

I bolded my words, not to be testy or annoying, but to show why I gave the answer I did.  Also, how many people know that the ability would resolve anyway and check the power it had last before dying?  I didn't.  I honestly believed before looking up the ruling that the ability would be negated as there was no power to check when it resolved.  Now I know what to watch out for when playing with or against the Beastmaster.  I'm fairly certain that there are others who play that do not know it either and might kill the creature after attackers are declared to try and fizzle the ability and bring the creatures over not pumped, as I might have before.  So saying it wouldn't happen may be wrong and something you can use to your own advantage.  It's part of why I posted the full ruling in my response. 

Oct 4, 2012 -- 8:16PM, Lobster667 wrote:

Oct 4, 2012 -- 7:13PM, phaseshifter wrote:

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing 5 white spells with 3 plains. And I wouldn't bother with wild beastmaster.

The Vine also finds White, so you have 4 White sources, and you can reliably wait on the White spells for a while. Also, the deck has potentially seven ways to pump the Beastmaster (using Korozda Guildmage to intimidate and pump it could be big game).

Like I said earlier, the guildmage + beastmaster has marginal use. I'd want at least a +3 to attack with it, and that would cost me 9 mana. Anything less, it probably won't suvive, so it ends up being a very expensive pump spell, in which case, chorus of might would be better. (added to the list, it was apparently lost in editing)

I'd play it in draft, but not often in sealed. And playing the deck, there has been no situation where I would have wanted to draw it. 

I think not playing wild beastmaster was a mistake in here.

I also opened it during my pre-release and was sceptical about its real power. Here it is: it won all the games I had him on the board.

If you attack with it, and 2-3 other creatures, a Giant Growth, chorus of might or even a Selesnya Charm on it as instant will wipe the board if your opponent decided to block, or get you very close to a win if he didn't.

I'm not even mentioning scavenge on him... As long as people value it quite low, I'll always be happy to draft it.

 

Good point about scavenge, but as you can see, this pool was low on scavenge creatures. In 5 rounds I never scavenged more than once per game (sometimes not at all). Not having the scorpion, my best scavenge is korzoda monitor, but it also happens to be a creature I want to keep on the battlefield. I'll have to keep that in mind though.

With Augur Spree activated, its last known power would be 8 before it dies if I'm reading this correctly, so it would give +8/+8 to other creatures.  (Which goes to show that you need to use that pre-combat).  If instead you used something along the lines of Grasp of Darkness to kill it, it would give all creatures -3/-3. 

I had completely forgotten about last known information rule. I figured it would be considered 0 if it wasn't on the battlefield on resolution. Good information.

Having both Rogue's Passage and Wild Beastmaster is nice, it gives you a lot of reach.

I don't know. It's 5 mana for a +1 and you're probably doing nothing else that turn. I can't believe you wouldn't play golgari longlegs though.

In the Declare Attackers step, you declare your attackers (including the Beastmaster). This triggers the ability from the Beastmaster, which is then put on the stack. You have the opportunity to pump her in response to this trigger if you have instant speed pump, just like your opponent has the opportunity to shrink it (though I can't think of anything outside Golgari Charm that could actually do so at instant speed). When the trigger resolves, that is when the Beastmaster's power (or last known power if it died) is checked; This means it works even if your opponent kills it in response to the trigger; There's no way to stop the ability once the Beastmaster is declared attacking.

This is correct. however, if you wait to see if your opponent plays something to use your instant, and they decide not to, you just lost the opportunity to cast anything on it since you've passed priority already. And since the beastmaster is a 1/1 at that point, it's very likely your opponent won't waste a spell on it and just kill it on block. I don't think this is the optimal play.

@Nighthavk
You're right. I completely missed how splashable the :rb: cards were. I'm absolutely terrible at trying to figure out text pools, it is much easier to have the cards in front of you.

Weird, it's the opposite for me. I wish I had a text file when I seal Makes for easier data analysis.

Oct 5, 2012 -- 8:41PM, phaseshifter wrote:

Oct 5, 2012 -- 2:15PM, Sleeping wrote:

@Phaseshifter:
I have no clue what you're refering to when you say a "+1".

+1/+1 on each creature.

Well if you're talking about the Beastmaster's ability not being good reach, consider the fact that I had eight ways to buff her in my deck.