Ok. So I stopped playing a little after champions of kamigawa hit. Had played for a few years and mostly I had a fast old goblin deck. So in short while it looks like this is an exssive amount to spend on cards most of this I have just dusted off. (I found out about 4 days back mana burn no longer happens. Was a shock to me) So what I am looking at is not just a few ideas on my deck but also any updated rules that might efect my deck. Think of me as a new player that is building with 2004 mindset. More or less what is happening.
Fist lets hit the list. I will edit this in my head as I go. It borrows from Vial goblins quite a bit.
4 x Skirk Prospector
4 x Goblin Lackey
4 x Mogg Fanatic
4 x Goblin Piledriver
2 x Goblin Sharpshooter
3 x Goblin Matron
3 x Goblin Ringleader
2 x Siege-Gang Commander
2 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 x Aether vial
3 x Skullclamp
4 x Pyrokinesis
2 x Death Pits of Rath
4 x Strip Mine
4 x Bloodstained Mire
1 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Badlands
10 x Mountain
1 x Goblin Charbelcher
2 x Goblin Recruiter
4 x Goblin Welder
4 x Terror
2 x Perish
1 x Aether vial
1 x Skullclamp
Thats the deck. Thoughts? How will it hold up these days? I am looking at some new cards and thinking about edits. Here is a quick look:
Goblin Tunneler (With Piledriver...)
Krenko, Mob Boss (How is this thing a 4 cost only?)
Lightning Crafter has a combo with Kiki but the cost is just not worth it
Knucklebone Witch Made for Krenko?
Goblin Wardriver looks shockingly good.
There is a ton more too. Still looking at them.
So thoughts? Feelings? Dont hesatate to tell me I am a fool and it all sucks, just if you do please tell me why so I can build on it.
thought you might be putting it together for legacy. No, it's not banned in casual, but it's not exactly looked well upon either. If you don't mind the groans, go for it.
Strip Mine was banned before I stopped playing too. That was hatted as well. But I just dont have the money for the $50 a card replacment that everyone talks about that does not target basic lands so I am going with it. Also I live in Australia so tornys are not really a common thing here. Least not ones that are not in type 2.
you have enough money for 4 badlands ? I personaly think its not worth it.
I already own them. When I first built the deck they where not what they cost today. I would not have them in the list if I did not own them. Fact the list is a deck I own. Other than the new cards everying on the list is in slips in a box on the floor. Thats why I posted it up. I am wondering what time has done to change the deck and what I should really look at changing.
Ok. Ran a few games at www.mtgdeckbuilder.net and found out the following.
One. It is not as fast as I remember.
Two. It teands to plato about draw five.
Three. Burn stops its tempo flat. It gets no speed. Maybe that was just me knowing what to hit but the "Do 2 damage to all creatures" knocked it flat fast.
It needs work and I an not sure how to fix it.
One more rule change since you stopped playing:
1)Combat damage no longer uses the stack. Combat damage is dealt and resolves immediately without the option for priority in between. For your deck in particular it means that Mogg Fantastic is slightly less fantastic than he used to be. He can no longer block, then combat damage on the stack, sacrifice it to do another point of damage. You can still block then sacrifice it, you just won't do combat damage to whatever creature you blocked.
First, great to see an old player coming back. Welcome back.
Second, here's an idea of how well old school Goblins can play with new skool Goblins:
4x Goblin Chieftain
3x Goblin King
4x Goblin Lackey
3x Goblin Sky Raider
3x Mogg Fanatic
2x Spikeshot Goblin
2x Lightning Crafter
3x Krenko, Mob Boss
4x Rite of Flame
3x Goblin Grenade
2x Krenko's Command
1x Empty the Warrens
19x Snow-Covered Moutain
First, a couple of pre-emptive notes:
-Having those Skyraiders around has saved my butt to many times to take them out. Just having that one flyer around has been the diff between win or loss on many occasions.
-At first glance, it's way more expensive mana wise than a goblin deck should ever be, but with the Rite of Flame, I very rarely have an issue.
-The lone Fireblast has capped more games than I can count.
-I have tried the Vial route, but honestly, it didn't make much diff at all. This deck really doesn't have much of a mana issue, even with only 19 lands.
-Kiki-Jiki had a place in here for years, along with Mogg War Marshal , but just got cut with the Marshal for Krenko. It's better now than it was.
I'd like to try a R/B thing, fixing the mana base to do so and swapping Goblin King for Mad Auntie and finding a replacement for Skred, which I don't think would make the cut with far fewer snow-covered lands. I would probably swap Skred for Dreadbore in that case. Another new card I'd love to work in is Quest for the Goblin Lord . Seems like a solid card with as many tokens as thing creates. Turn 4 or 5 wins are status-quo for this deck.
Pretty much, if you block a creature (or attack) with Mogg Fanatic, you can't have Fanatic deal combat damage to the creature you're blocking, and then sac to use its ability. You can declare the creature blocked, and then sac the Fanatic. If you do that, unless the creature you're blocking has trample, it won't deal any damage, but even if it has 1 toughness, it will still live, because your Fanatic didn't deal damage (unless you targeted the creature with the Fanatic).
Say your opponent attacks with a Ball Lightning and a Goblin Piker, and you have a Mogg Fanatic. If you block the Piker with Fanatic, then sac it to deal 1 damage to Ball Lightning, the Ball Lightning will die and you'll take nothing. The Piker lives but niether deals or recieves any damage.
If you decide to block the Ball Lightning instead and then target the Piker with Fanatic's ability, then you will kill the Piker (before the damage step), and then, even though you blocked the trampling Ball Lightning, it will deal the full six damage because there is 0 toughness in its way.
The same is true for instants like Fling, Dredge and Scapegoat.
So this makes all of the holyday/fog cards worthless after blockers are declared? I mean what is the point of Timberwatch now?
I don't mind the wall of text, but I'm still a bit confused. Maybe I'm just completely lost, but, it looks like the new rules are in fact somewhat more akin to the old OLD rules, before the stack existed.
Talk about evolution of a thread. I hope the OP isn't upset at the hijacking of thread subject...
True, they did ask...
Honestly, there have been so many rules changes since I started playing this game that I get confused sometimes. I used to be the "rules-lawyer" of the group. Nowadays, sometimes I so lost it takes 15 minutes just to solve a simple disagreement.
So you have to buff before your attack? Play all spells, declare attackers and then wait for any inturpts to be played then attack damage is counted? So I would have to pre sack golbins to Clickslither then order the attack with him because if I order the attack I can not buff him if he is blocked with a bigger critter?
On my phone on my phone so sorry about spelling errors.
it has been 3 years since i played in private and many more since i played in a public setting. I understand the old rules it was the was. The stack i can understand. I was confused as to how the game would work without it. I was thinking tge change meant that you had to declare all spells and abilltys and the attack. Sorry about tge confusion and thanks for the info.I think i will look at Goblin grapller a bit more then. I will post up a list once i get home.
thanks for your help and sorry for the confusion.
4 x Skirk Prospector
4 x Goblin Lackey
4 x Goblin Piledriver
4 x Warren Instigator
2 x Goblin Chieftain
4 x Goblin Matron
4 x Goblin Ringleader
4 x Goblin Warchief
2 x Krenko, Mob Boss
2 x Siege-Gang Commander
4 x Aether vial
4 x Bloodstained Mire
18 x Mountain
Kiki was a hard cut. He is my personal fav of all my goblins. But Krenko is a win con in a single card. I watched while he and Warchief went nuts. One made the Tokens and the other gave them haste. I miss the direct damage that it was once able to do but now it is crazy fast. Still I want Goblin Grenade back in the deck so I might do some working. Can anyone see anything I may have missed? Gempalm Incinerator aside.
Deck is looking solid. Personal choices:
4 Lackeys and 4 Instigators seems like overkill. As does 4 Warchiefs.
+4 Goblin Grenade
+3 Quest for the Goblin Lord OR
+3 Krenko's Command
MAYBE: (I would, but I'm not afraid to run only one set of 1-drops, esp, the combo of this and Krenko's Command)
+4 Rite of Flame
Also, playing 4 Bloodstained Mires opens you to the possibilty of running a very small black splash (got Badlands ?) for Mad Auntie . More P/T ramp, and the ability to somewhat protect Krenko and those goblins providing haste, because they will be high priority targets for your opponents to destroy. Lastly, even though you have some decent card draw in there, I still say Browbeat is a CRAZY good card in this deck. 5 to the face or 3 unconditional cards in hand, is hard to pass up. I've tried cutting it out of my goblins a couple of times, and it has ALWAYS hurt the efficiency of the deck.
Again, I repeat my first four words: Deck is looking solid.
I disagree on a few points there Sacrifice, but I understand we all have our persoanl fave cards etc.
Personally I like using Wort, Boggart Auntie in my casual deck, but it's not as powerful as Krenko or SGC.
Browbeat isn't good for this build, plenty of decks/players will just take the damage.....
Because Ringleaders' and Lackeys' put a goblin permanent/creature into play trigger is conditional on your hand being full of goblins, or the library being stacked with creatures, I think the creature count needs to be all consuming (apart from Vials) to make it work well.
Being able to use a card like Gempalm Incinerator is better than Goblin Grenade, because it has much better synergy with the rest of the deck, you're not at card disadvantage and especially, because cycling can be cast anytime an instant could be.
Cycling can't be countered by standard counter, only by effects like Stifle .
That said - Mad Auntie is a fairly good choice against decks that cheat massive fatties into play quickly, so you can repeatedly save your Piledrivers from combat damage/burn etc.
Whether you play this or Chieftain is a personal choice for me, but either way, I'd only run 2 or 3 tops.
Flip side is that Incinerator won't hit your opponent. After the third turn of the game, your oppenent won't be ABLE to afford to take the damage from Browbeat. Trust me, just give it a try and make your own decision. Slave's opinion of Browbeat is valid, but the speed of this deck is not to be underestimated, given the combination of Grenades and Browbeat. In all honesty, this deck is great no matter which way you run it. Trying it both ways is the best thing you can do. I could be wrong, my deck (different than the one I posted earlier in this thread) does differ in a couple of other ways as well, and my suggestions may not work as well given the other small differences.
First. I am in Brisbane.
Second if I am going to counter it is normally with something like Fork . I like Wort but I am not so willing to cut a Krenko or SGC. I would cut a Warchief to put her in tho. If I do tho I think that the set of Prospector's needs to stay.
As for the set of 8 "Cheat" cards of Lackey and Instigator. I find they work well together. The reason for that is I find that the threats of say 3 of the cards early means that kill spells are played on them or blockers used. This means that later cards like Piledriver are normally left untouched. I will say that if Forgotten Cave did not come in taped they would be handy.
I am going to run Pyrokinesis again over GG. Sacking a gobo in the early game kills the tempo and in the late game you dont need the nads to win. If I have Wart in the deck anyway it would not be to much of an issue. Maybe Squee could make a come back...
Tuktuk Scrapper I think is a good SB choice but not a good main deck option. Sharpshooters too I think fit that role. I use to never make a deck without them but now I see them as a means to an end. The card is good but I would rather draw a ringleader than a Sharpshooter. I will admit tho with Krenko and Prospector I think a Sharpy could deal a fair amount of pain.... Maybe now I think about it at least one it due. Dam Krenko is evil.
My views on Gempalm are this. War stike does everything it does without that card draw and lets me hit you in the face with it. If I was going to add something it would be that.
As for Browbeat. This is going in. I just need to cut something. With the 8 cheat cards and say 2 of them on the table no one is going to want me to have goblins in my hand. The question will come down to taking damage or letting me fill my hand and drop things for free...
I want to add a Goblin Tunneler too. Just the one is fine. Having the option to tap and have a piledriver hit or a lackey. Yea it needs to go in and I can matron it if the time comes.
Stingscourger has power but I just don't know if I can really cut much to put him in. If I can use him with Wart tho I can see some real pain being dealt. At the same time if I have played a game to the leanght that I have had to tutor both these cards something is going wrong.
Quest for the Goblin Lord to me looks like a bad card. If I was going to play something like that I would go with Coat of arms. As for Krenko's Command, is there not a goblin that does the same thing? Comes in with an upkeep cost and drops a token when it enters and leaves play. Why not use it over Krenko's Command? (Found it. It was Mogg War Marshal)
Last. I was thinking about adding 4 Stripmines to the deck but really I have found that I want all the mana I can get. The issue with strip mines is that in my opening hand they add no coloured mana and in my late game hand they can be great but I have noramlly won or lost by that point.
Anyway going to mull this over and do some building tomorrow. Thats for the help guys.
@ Slaver: LOL. Yeah we're talking about two diff "sub-strategies" that don't accomodate each other very well. More cheats (Lackey and Instigator) means that you don't need as much damage to the face, and more damage to the face means you don't need as many cheated goblins. 6 of one, half-dozen of another.
@ DRYIYC: Yes, Mogg War Marshall is usually the better choice. I guess I just brainfarted on that one. I like War Marshal and GG. Depends on whether you feel that 2 cards and 3 mana is worth 2 tokens and 5 to the face. Borderline, but when you add in the other speed that this deck is capable of, it makes it a little more worth it than it would normally be. Quest is a good card, IF you're running a very heavy EARLY token gen setup. One War Marshal, and you're more than half way there. A turn 1 Quest is often hot by turn 3 if things go down as expected. But it's not for everyone, because things don't always go as expected.
Wort, in this case, is a card you shouldn't NEED. This deck wants to win by turn 4 or 5. My opinion is that there is no room in the deck for a 4 CMC card. Maybe if you're running a goblin that has a burn factor upon entering the 'field. Exception to the CMC rule would be Fireblast , which is a great finisher, and is never cast for it's mana cost anyway. However, if you play in a counter-heavy environment, it's not a great choice. Pyrokinesis is cool in the fact that it can be free, but my outlook on a deck with this speed is that any burn card in the deck should have the option to hit your opponent.
At any rate, good luck with the tweaking of this deck. As I said, it looks lethal no matter which way you choose to polish it. I know I'd hate to face it across that table.
I think that's one way to do it, but I'm not exactly a fan of the all-creatures-plus-an-AEther Vial to give you more creatures approach. I AM a Browbeat fan; it's the only halfway decent draw spell and either of its prongs are a bargain for 2R. Get a Goblin War Strike.
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