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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:10AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2012
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Must disagree about AS being weak. If your opponent cannot remove enchantments or make you sacrifice a simple Invisible Stalker  with Indestructible  and Pariah  attached is win game.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:43AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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I do think OD is better than SS, but it is narrow.
OD has the advantage that its bombs have amazing ETB abilites or activated abilites that can be uses immediately (mana or life permitting) It also has amazing 2HG potential with Underworld Dreams  and Liliana's Specter  hitting both opponents at once.
SS has the advantage that it can destroy enchantments and artifacts, which OD can majorly struggle with. It also has kill spells at 1 mana less. With no decent artifact creatures in the game as of yet, Go for the Throat  is functionally a 1 mana cheaper Murder  .
What tips it for me is SS has no graveyard recursion. Those two simple Rise from the Grave  s make OD a better deck IMO. More flexible and more able to respond to an opponent intelligently by taking their creatures if need be. If SS had some ressurection, it'd be a very close call.
Its an interesting discussion and I was going to make a thread a week or so back on this....
SS has an answer for the panoptic mirror, sulfuric vortex, underworld dreams, the well of lost dreams, erratic portal, any artifact/enchantment in the game. It also can deal with the troll in the mirror match, it can get rid of hexproof creatures much like dungrove elder easier, sword of truth, clear out an entire mill machine in one swoop with pernicious deed.... the maelstrom pulses also have amazing utility...
OD has two innocent bloods but SS has two diabolical edicts, consuming vapor, 2 total board sweepers. and 1x creature sweeper (for 4 mana)...infest is great but can't always clear a board or kill a hexproof. Mutilate almost always clears a board. SS has three of them and 2 clear everything... In addition, if you get a gravepact and greater good out, and with all your stall, you can, the board really gets locked down. Nothing lives that you don't want out there.
Re: rise from the grave --- my 2x mortivore and 2xspiritmongers regenerate. They can't be murdered. Meanwhile, mind rot is making you discard two cards turn 3.....maybe even a rat made you discard one earlier..... You can't even mutilate them I don't think since the card doesn't say anything about "creatures can't be regenerated" --- the mitotic slime is leaving behind 2x 2/2 creatures etc... But I agree, RFtG is a beast of a card in OD....not to mention 2x rancor in SS.
and with dark heart of the wood and the 6 land fetching creatures...you have some ample lifegain---you think your deck of land quick and have card-draw to boot......
Its a really interesting matchup, I'd actually like to play a set of games and see how it goes...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:50AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:53AM
#24
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I do think OD is better than SS, but it is narrow.
OD has the advantage that its bombs have amazing ETB abilites or activated abilites that can be uses immediately (mana or life permitting) It also has amazing 2HG potential with Underworld Dreams and Liliana's Specter hitting both opponents at once.
SS has the advantage that it can destroy enchantments and artifacts, which OD can majorly struggle with. It also has kill spells at 1 mana less. With no decent artifact creatures in the game as of yet, Go for the Throat is functionally a 1 mana cheaper Murder .
What tips it for me is SS has no graveyard recursion. Those two simple Rise from the Grave s make OD a better deck IMO. More flexible and more able to respond to an opponent intelligently by taking their creatures if need be. If SS had some ressurection, it'd be a very close call.
Its an interesting discussion and I was going to make a thread a week or so back on this....
SS has an answer for the panoptic mirror, sulfuric vortex, underworld dreams, the well of lost dreams, erratic portal, any artifact/enchantment in the game. It also can deal with the troll in the mirror match, it can get rid of hexproof creatures much like dungrove elder easier, sword of truth, clear out an entire mill machine in one swoop with pernicious deed.... the maelstrom pulses also have amazing utility...
OD has two innocent bloods but OD has two diabolical edits of these and 3 total board sweepers....infest is great but can't always clear a board or kill a hexproof. Mutilate almost always clears a board. SS has three of them and it clears everything... In addition, if you get a gravepact and greater good out, and with all your stall, you can, the board really gets locked down. Nothing lives that you don't want out there.
Re: rise from the grave --- my 2x mortivore and 2xspiritmongers regenerate. They can't be murdered. You can't even mutilate them I don't think since the card doesn't say anything about "creatures can't be regenerated" --- the mitotic slime is leaving behind 2x 2/2 creatures etc... But I agree, RFtG is a beast of a card in OD....not to mention 2x rancor in SS.
and with dark heart of the wood and the 6 land fetching creatures...you have some ample lifegain---you think your deck of land quick andh ave card-draw to boot......
Its a really interesting matchup, I'd actually like to play a set of games and see how it goes...
Mutilate kills regeneration, and indestructable, by virtue of using -1/1 per swamp rather than actual damage. The only way I know of surviving it is to either have more toughness than OD has swamps, or have Fool's Demise  . I guess the PI undying gets a pass too.
It would be a good matchup to be honest. SS has fewer weaknesses, but this limits it's strength as well. OD has the power to slam right through it and kill with no creatures on the board, or at least no creatures surviving, but a good enchantment ruins it's day completely.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:55AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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I do think OD is better than SS, but it is narrow.
OD has the advantage that its bombs have amazing ETB abilites or activated abilites that can be uses immediately (mana or life permitting) It also has amazing 2HG potential with Underworld Dreams and Liliana's Specter hitting both opponents at once.
SS has the advantage that it can destroy enchantments and artifacts, which OD can majorly struggle with. It also has kill spells at 1 mana less. With no decent artifact creatures in the game as of yet, Go for the Throat is functionally a 1 mana cheaper Murder .
What tips it for me is SS has no graveyard recursion. Those two simple Rise from the Grave s make OD a better deck IMO. More flexible and more able to respond to an opponent intelligently by taking their creatures if need be. If SS had some ressurection, it'd be a very close call.
Its an interesting discussion and I was going to make a thread a week or so back on this....
SS has an answer for the panoptic mirror, sulfuric vortex, underworld dreams, the well of lost dreams, erratic portal, any artifact/enchantment in the game. It also can deal with the troll in the mirror match, it can get rid of hexproof creatures much like dungrove elder easier, sword of truth, clear out an entire mill machine in one swoop with pernicious deed.... the maelstrom pulses also have amazing utility...
OD has two innocent bloods but OD has two diabolical edits of these and 3 total board sweepers....infest is great but can't always clear a board or kill a hexproof. Mutilate almost always clears a board. SS has three of them and it clears everything... In addition, if you get a gravepact and greater good out, and with all your stall, you can, the board really gets locked down. Nothing lives that you don't want out there.
Re: rise from the grave --- my 2x mortivore and 2xspiritmongers regenerate. They can't be murdered. You can't even mutilate them I don't think since the card doesn't say anything about "creatures can't be regenerated" --- the mitotic slime is leaving behind 2x 2/2 creatures etc... But I agree, RFtG is a beast of a card in OD....not to mention 2x rancor in SS.
and with dark heart of the wood and the 6 land fetching creatures...you have some ample lifegain---you think your deck of land quick andh ave card-draw to boot......
Its a really interesting matchup, I'd actually like to play a set of games and see how it goes...
Mutilate kills regeneration, and indestructable, by virtue of using -1/1 per swamp rather than actual damage. The only way I know of surviving it is to either have more toughness than OD has swamps, or have Fool's Demise . I guess the PI undying gets a pass too.
It would be a good matchup to be honest. SS has fewer weaknesses, but this limits it's strength as well. OD has the power to slam right through it and kill with no creatures on the board, or at least no creatures surviving, but a good enchantment ruins it's day completely.
So putting -1 counters on a creature bypasses regeneration abilities? That evens things up a bit.
Yep, just googled it, when a creature has 0 toughness, it cannot be regenerated....
Still though, Spiritmonger and mortivore are really only suspecptible to 1x mutilate... in OD and the Innocent bloods.... interesting... but mortivore probably won't get too big to fast in that match as I see no one charging out the gate with creatures....
SS's biggest fear is the 10 mana corrupt I think..and if it doesn't end the game its a 20 life swing none the less.....
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 2:50PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2012
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In 1v1, I'd put Rakdos as the strongest. Izzet and Azorius both have consistency problems putting them at the weakest of the dlc decks. That doesn't mean they can't do well, but they tend to crash & burn more often.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 3:04PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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In 1v1, I'd put Rakdos as the strongest. Izzet and Azorius both have consistency problems putting them at the weakest of the dlc decks. That doesn't mean they can't do well, but they tend to crash & burn more often.
What are we dsicussing, which deck wins 1v1 or which deck is better versus a variety of situations?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 3:55PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2012
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May just be my perception, but I wouldn't necessarily say a deck has consistency problems; I'd say certain BUILDS have consistency problems as there are a lot of different possible combinations. I've also been surprised how changing out 1 or two cards even make a big difference in how consistently you draw, or variety of spells. I've recently changed some inconsistent builds only slightly, yet they draw a lot better. Wierdest thing ever.
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