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Switch to Forum Live View 10/2/2012 RC: "Populating on a Budget"
9 months ago  ::  Sep 28, 2012 - 1:11PM #1
WotC_Monty
Date Joined: Nov 5, 2003
Posts: 1,652
This thread is for discussion of this week's ReConstructed, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 01, 2012 - 11:47PM #2
Dragon_Bloodthirsty
  • Warm, wet and squishy inside
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2003
Posts: 364
I disagree about Rancor; it's a house.  It's fast damage, and it interacts with the Temple to make Populate happen (since chump-blocking the temple has the added benefit of "trading" with the token it would have produced).  Rancor plays more like an equipment than a normal enchantment.

I'm also skeptical of adding a six-mana enchantment to a deck that already has so much inevitability.  It would probably depend on the environment how well that plays out.  I think the +1/+1 effect is more affordable, and is better in an aggressive environment.  I can't deny that +3/+3 makes control cringe, if you can manage to get it on the table.


I'm surprised nobody considered splashing black too.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 12:18AM #3
MuuMyuki
Date Joined: Mar 4, 2010
Posts: 365
I'm not really seeing how that infinite combo deck works. I can see that, individually, the parts work to  gain large amounts of mana, copy burn spells, and draw cards. Anyone care to fill me in?
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 3:03AM #4
GreenBuster
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2008
Posts: 875

Oct 2, 2012 -- 12:18AM, MuuMyuki wrote:

I'm not really seeing how that infinite combo deck works. I can see that, individually, the parts work to  gain large amounts of mana, copy burn spells, and draw cards. Anyone care to fill me in?




You have Fervor, Axebane Guardian, Nivix Guildmage, and at least 3 other Defenders.  

1. Use Cackling Counterpart (CC) on Axebane Guardian.

2. While CC is on the stack, tap Axebane Guardian to add a combination of 4 mana.

3. Copy CC with Nivix Guildmage and target Axebane Guardian.

4. The copied CC resolves putting an untapped Axebane Guardian with haste (by Fervor).

5. Tap the new Axebane Guardian for 5 mana and copy CC targeting Axebane Guardian.

6. 4 and 5 repeat wth increasingly added mana from Axebane Guardians (Infinite Mana with enough guardians (I wouldn't put in tokens as there would be too many)).

7. Use mana to draw cards With Nivix Guildmage until you get a Bonfire of the Damned, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and/or any of the other spells with enough mana.

8. Let everything resolve until you can play the spell(s) of your choice and kill your opponent.  Instants like Thunderous Wrath can be activated in-chain while Bonfire (unless you manage to Miracle it) and Niv require an empty stack to be played.  The spells can be copied if need be and CC can be flashed back if something happens.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 5:14AM #5
coien
Date Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 145

Oct 2, 2012 -- 3:03AM, GreenBuster wrote:

Oct 2, 2012 -- 12:18AM, MuuMyuki wrote:

I'm not really seeing how that infinite combo deck works. I can see that, individually, the parts work to  gain large amounts of mana, copy burn spells, and draw cards. Anyone care to fill me in?




You have Fervor, Axebane Guardian, Nivix Guildmage, and at least 3 other Defenders.  

1. Use Cackling Counterpart (CC) on Axebane Guardian.

2. While CC is on the stack, tap Axebane Guardian to add a combination of 4 mana.

3. Copy CC with Nivix Guildmage and target Axebane Guardian.

4. The copied CC resolves putting an untapped Axebane Guardian with haste (by Fervor).

5. Tap the new Axebane Guardian for 5 mana and copy CC targeting Axebane Guardian.

6. 4 and 5 repeat wth increasingly added mana from Axebane Guardians (Infinite Mana with enough guardians (I wouldn't put in tokens as there would be too many)).

7. Use mana to draw cards With Nivix Guildmage until you get a Bonfire of the Damned, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and/or any of the other spells with enough mana.

8. Let everything resolve until you can play the spell(s) of your choice and kill your opponent.  Instants like Thunderous Wrath can be activated in-chain while Bonfire (unless you manage to Miracle it) and Niv require an empty stack to be played.  The spells can be copied if need be and CC can be flashed back if something happens.




You can also make infinite Zealous Conscripts if you also have the Guildmage out, a Guardian that can tap for 3, and at least 3 other mana. Cackling, copy it with Guildmage, ZC token untaps Guardian, Guardian taps for 3, copy Cackling on the stack again, new ZC token, etc.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 6:38AM #6
GreenBuster
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2008
Posts: 875
@coien

You need 4 mana to use the guildmage's copy ability but that is another way to go about using the deck.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 7:36AM #7
Ange-Gardien
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2011
Posts: 549
Four copies of Wayfaring Temple ?  What part of "Include No New Rares or Mythic rares" does that guy not understand?  Or am I missing something here?  How about REAL budget decks, please.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 8:26AM #8
GreenBuster
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2008
Posts: 875

Oct 2, 2012 -- 7:36AM, Ange-Gardien wrote:

Four copies of Wayfaring Temple ?  What part of "Include No New Rares or Mythic rares" does that guy not understand?  Or am I missing something here?  How about REAL budget decks, please.




You are missing something.  The original deck had 4 copies of Wayfaring Temple.  He didn't add any new rares to the deck, they were already there.

He talks about the criteria in the article that he linked at the top under "the beginning of that article".

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 10:03AM #9
CarbonatedSoda
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2012
Posts: 397

Oct 2, 2012 -- 7:36AM, Ange-Gardien wrote:

Four copies of Wayfaring Temple ?  What part of "Include No New Rares or Mythic rares" does that guy not understand?  Or am I missing something here?  How about REAL budget decks, please.




Wayfaring temple is 2 dollars to preorder and one is in the intro pack for selesnya. Collective blessing is a dollar.

If you want to point out an issue with pricey rares, theres 4 temple gardens which is 40 right there.

Unfortunately the amount of viable budget decks in Standard can be counted on one hand.  And in the current format, they're pretty much all mono.

And the article writers have never been good at making budget decks. The old building on a budget articles had things like geralfs, gravecrawlers, snapcasters and planeswalkers in them.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 10:13AM #10
MuuMyuki
Date Joined: Mar 4, 2010
Posts: 365

Oct 2, 2012 -- 3:03AM, GreenBuster wrote:

Oct 2, 2012 -- 12:18AM, MuuMyuki wrote:

I'm not really seeing how that infinite combo deck works. I can see that, individually, the parts work to  gain large amounts of mana, copy burn spells, and draw cards. Anyone care to fill me in?




You have Fervor, Axebane Guardian, Nivix Guildmage, and at least 3 other Defenders.  

1. Use Cackling Counterpart (CC) on Axebane Guardian.

2. While CC is on the stack, tap Axebane Guardian to add a combination of 4 mana.

3. Copy CC with Nivix Guildmage and target Axebane Guardian.

4. The copied CC resolves putting an untapped Axebane Guardian with haste (by Fervor).

5. Tap the new Axebane Guardian for 5 mana and copy CC targeting Axebane Guardian.

6. 4 and 5 repeat wth increasingly added mana from Axebane Guardians (Infinite Mana with enough guardians (I wouldn't put in tokens as there would be too many)).

7. Use mana to draw cards With Nivix Guildmage until you get a Bonfire of the Damned, Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and/or any of the other spells with enough mana.

8. Let everything resolve until you can play the spell(s) of your choice and kill your opponent.  Instants like Thunderous Wrath can be activated in-chain while Bonfire (unless you manage to Miracle it) and Niv require an empty stack to be played.  The spells can be copied if need be and CC can be flashed back if something happens.




Well that's...complicatidly interesting. Thanks for the explaination!

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