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9 months ago  ::  Sep 28, 2012 - 5:09AM #1
NiimuraJun
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2011
Posts: 157
Question about Grave Betrayal . If somebody uses something to destroy all non-land permanents, does Grave Betrayal see the creatures dying and trigger, or no? 
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 28, 2012 - 5:11AM #2
will_dice
Date Joined: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 5,462

Sep 28, 2012 -- 5:09AM, NiimuraJun wrote:

Question about Grave Betrayal . If somebody uses something to destroy all non-land permanents, does Grave Betrayal see the creatures dying and trigger, or no? 



Yes, it triggers. All the creatures you didn't control will return under you control.


It's a special rule for leaves-the-battlefield triggers, specifically allowing it.



603.6c. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren't limited to, "When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone "from anywhere" is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.


603.6d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.

[<o>]
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 28, 2012 - 5:11AM #3
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,306
yes, it does

it will trigger for each opponent's creature that died and upon resolution of those triggers, a delayed trigger is created for each of those cards, to return it during the next end step

note: noncreature cards can be returned too, provided they were destroyed as creatures
eg. an animated Inkmoth Nexus dies, it'll return (but just as a land) with a +1/+1 counter and be black (but not be a zombie)
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 28, 2012 - 5:34AM #4
NiimuraJun
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2011
Posts: 157
Thanks for the quick answers! 
Just won a game of commander thanks to that. 
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