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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:02PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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on a recent Cranial Insertion article, there was a question that i didn't understand. here it is: == Q: When I use mana from Boseiju, Who Shelters All  < /a>  to pay the suspend cost of Arc Blade  < /a> , does it make Arc Blade uncounterable?
A: Boseiju's ability only makes a spell uncounterable if you use the mana to cast a spell, and suspending isn't casting. You will eventually cast the spell when the last time counter comes off, but at that point you're casting it without paying its mana cost. So you're not spending any mana to cast it, let alone mana from Boseiju, and it won't get the uncounterable bonus.
==
i'm confused because the article says that Boseiju only helps if you use its mana to /cast/ a spell; but the oracle wording says "If that mana is spent on an instant or sorcery spell" instead of something like "If that mana is used to cast an instant or sorcery spell." In addition, there are rulings on the gatherer page that make it sound like Boseiju helps when using mana on an instant or sorcery spell in ways other than casting it:
==
The spell can't be countered if the mana produced by Boseiju is spent to cover any cost of the spell, even an additional cost such as a splice cost. This is true even if you pay an additional cost while casting a spell "without paying its mana cost."
==
is the cranial insertion article correct in its answer? if so, could someone help me understand why, given the points i brought up? thanks.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:11PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Added to my answer.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:21PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Ah shoot! Overwrote my answer by accident! Will repost it.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:25PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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when you suspend the Arc Blade you are not spending mana on an "instant or sorcery spell", you are spending it on an ability that exiles an "instant or sorcery card" as such Boseiju has no interaction with it
proud member of the 2011 community team
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:27PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Suspend is a collection of abilities. If you spent the mana on suspend, you spent the mana on an ability of a card, not a spell. No spell exists until you cast the card when you remove the last counter. 702.60a Suspend is a keyword that represents three abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with suspend is in a player’s hand. The second and third are triggered abilities that function in the exile zone. “Suspend N—[cost]” means “If you could begin to cast this card by putting it onto the stack from your hand, you may pay [cost] and exile it with N time counters on it. This action doesn’t use the stack,” and “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is suspended, remove a time counter from it,” and “When the last time counter is removed from this card, if it’s exiled, play it without paying its mana cost if able. If you can’t, it remains exiled. If you cast a creature spell this way, it gains haste until you lose control of the spell or the permanent it becomes.”
As far as I know, the only way to spend mana on a spell is to spend it on casting the spell. Additional costs are payed to cast a spell. To cast, total cost = mana cost or alternative cost + additional costs and cost increases - cost reductions.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:34PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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ikegami said: == As far as I know, the only way to spend mana on a spell is to spend it on casting the spell. Additional costs are payed to cast a spell. To cast, total cost = mana cost or alternative cost + additional costs and cost increases - cost reductions.== this clears it up for me, i think. the distinction between casting a *spell* and using an ability of a *card* is something i'm now more aware of! ALTHOUGH, it brings up another question. i know that Lightning Storm  is a really weird card in that it has an ability that can only be activated when it's a spell on the stack. suppose there is a card that increases the cost of activated abilities (such as suppression field  ). ` so now i can pay 2 mana and discard a card to activate the activated ability of the Lightning Storm spell. if i used boseiju mana to do this, does it then become uncounterable (ie because i am using the mana on an activated ability belonging to a *spell*)?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:34PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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If Chill  was on the battlefield, you'd have to pay  to cast Arc Blade when you remove the last time counter from it. total cost
= mana cost or alternative cost + additional costs and cost increases - cost reductions
= free +
If you used mana from Boseiju, Who Shelters All to pay that, Arc Blade can't be countered.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:37PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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so now i can pay 2 mana and discard a card to activate the activated ability of the Lightning Storm spell. if i used boseiju mana to do this, does it then become uncounterable (ie because i am using the mana on an activated ability belonging to a *spell*)?
No. It's not clear, but I believe it's not meant to cover that.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:37PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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ALTHOUGH, it brings up another question, but i'll need help to properly convolute it. i know that Lightning Storm is a really weird card in that it has an ability that can only be activated when it's a spell on the stack. suppose there is a card that increases the cost of activated abilities (such as suppression field ).
` so now i can pay 2 mana and discard a card to activate the activated ability of the Lightning Storm spell. if i used boseiju mana to do this, does it then become uncounterable (ie because i am using the mana on an activated ability belonging to a *spell*)?
sorry, still no (unless you used it on the actual mana cost)
proud member of the 2011 community team
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9 months ago ::
Sep 24, 2012 - 1:38PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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There's no clear answer. I believe it's not meant to cover that.
so you're not sure of the answer, then?
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