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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 1:03AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
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@crimson_sunrise He didn't say that it doesn't happen all the time. He said they don't do it for the sake of doing it, and try to give a good reason why CARDNAME should be pushed in this particular environment. "Power Creep" as you put it, is something that had to happen. Spells were so OP back in the day that creatures were just too undervalued to play. Which doesn't make sense when you consider that 48-54% of all sets are creatures and 2 or 3 of them saw constructed play. I think creatures are where they need to be now, pushing them any further will probably be overkill. As for those cards you mentioned. A lot of those are still great cards, but what made them great was how useful they were in their environments. Not everyone can be a all-format-all-star like Tarmogoyf.
Let's look at Mike Flores' article about the decks that were "breaking" Standard:
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...
Cawblade had only two or three creatures, depending on what you called Batterskull. It was also the strongest deck ever in Standard, compared to the field. Jund ran more creatures than noncreature spells. Faeries ran slightly less creatures than noncreatures. Tooth and Nail required a fairly wide variety of creatures to win. Ravager Affinity was a deck based on a ton of VERY strong creatures. Psychatog had only two creatures, but one of them was absolutely ridiculous. Fires of Yavimaya is a creature deck. No, really, it's a CREATURE deck. Loaded with 'em, and they're all good. Academy had no creatures. It was also part of the most broken block known to the game. Deadguy Red and other RDW variants are very creature-heavy. Necropotence, surprisingly, had a healthy complement of creatures.
So you see, there were ALWAYS a solid amount of creatures used in Constructed. Occasionally it would flicker back and forth between more creatures and less creatures, but it would often swing back to a balance around where Jund and Faeries lie. Some decks would be on one side, some decks on the other. Limited would give a chance for all the creatures that couldn't make Constructed play to shine, along with some of the spells that had the same problem. Outside of a couple of EXTREMELY rare situations that involved unbelievably broken cards, there was never a situation where creatures wre unseen. In our current modern metagame, we are now starting to see situations where there are viable tournament-level decks that only run four non-creature spells (RG Aggro). Those four non-creature spells are used solely to kill enemy creatures. In my opinion, this is an unhealthy focus on creatures nearly as harmful as Academy's complete disregard of them. Creatures previously held a balanced position in the metagame, with the immediate impact of a creature being much less than that of a spell because the creature gets to have a persistent impact over time. Now, as creatures gain much higher impact and become much more resistant to spell-based disruption, that balance is being disrupted, perhaps permanently. Things ARE changing, and I'm not all happy about it.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 1:37AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2010
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@Acritter
I like your post. I was thinking pre-modern vs modern in terms of spell power vs creatures. It was gross.
I see no problem with some decks being able to hold their own with just creatures and few support spells, but only so long as other decks can exist as well. I want there to be variance when I go to FMA whether it be with Rakdos aggro/burn or something that gets wins out of nowhere like a Pyromancer Ascension deck. Like I said I think creatures are at a good place now. But I think people should stop the creature power creep hate and instead focus on getting spells a bit more power again. It seems WotC are making spells to generic these days for the sake of being safe. And burn has taken a huge nerf ( bonfire aside ) we don't even have shock anymore, and people cried when lightning bolt was taken away.
The game seems to still be in a state of hyper evolution since it was kick started in M10 and WotC hasn't quite found their new formula yet. I hope for a day when there can be creature based decks and spell based decks and everything inbetween in the same environment. But creatures did need the buff, now it's time for spells to find their new power level, and quite frankly they are hurting now.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 2:17AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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I would absolutely love to see a more recent version of the Vapor Ops test. Design challenges, critiquing and puzzles, are some of my favourite parts about running a Multiverse for custom cards, and I'd love to see how I (and my friends) measure up against the one used by R&D.
I do find it interesting that a 2/1 can't block for 1 mana in black has actually been in print for a year, and one with a scary recursive ability to boot. I guess black removal isn't as useful as red removal for hyperaggressive decks (because it can't be pointed at the face), so black 1-drops can be better?
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 3:28AM
#14
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So you see, there were ALWAYS a solid amount of creatures used in Constructed. Occasionally it would flicker back and forth between more creatures and less creatures, but it would often swing back to a balance around where Jund and Faeries lie. Some decks would be on one side, some decks on the other. Limited would give a chance for all the creatures that couldn't make Constructed play to shine, along with some of the spells that had the same problem. Outside of a couple of EXTREMELY rare situations that involved unbelievably broken cards, there was never a situation where creatures wre unseen. In our current modern metagame, we are now starting to see situations where there are viable tournament-level decks that only run four non-creature spells (RG Aggro). Those four non-creature spells are used solely to kill enemy creatures. In my opinion, this is an unhealthy focus on creatures nearly as harmful as Academy's complete disregard of them.
Oh come on, there are always control decks that play only 1 or 2 creatures. What's so bad about aggro decks that play only 1 or 2 spells? As long as they're not the norm, both of those decks existing is healthy.
Creatures previously held a balanced position in the metagame, with the immediate impact of a creature being much less than that of a spell because the creature gets to have a persistent impact over time. Now, as creatures gain much higher impact and become much more resistant to spell-based disruption, that balance is being disrupted, perhaps permanently. Things ARE changing, and I'm not all happy about it.
Thing is, more people are happy about it than not.
What I'd love to see is a SPELL that would have been considered pushing the power curve in 2000. Or even merely BELOW the power curve, as opposed to laughably bad. Seriously. Haven't had one since PtE, and that's a creature kill spell.
Read the article. Creatures were not good enough, spells were too good. It makes sense to push one, not to push the other.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 5:47AM
#15
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I'm happy that this card is a devil. Very happy. I was worried that when we left Innistrad, the devils would leave with it, but it appears that they are here to stay.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 6:06AM
#16
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I'm happy that this card is a devil. Very happy. I was worried that when we left Innistrad, the devils would leave with it, but it appears that they are here to stay.
Not so sure about that. The original Ravnica had the original modern devil in Squealing Devil , so this might just be a throwback to that.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 6:22AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2001
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In our current modern metagame, we are now starting to see situations where there are viable tournament-level decks that only run four non-creature spells (RG Aggro). Those four non-creature spells are used solely to kill enemy creatures. In my opinion, this is an unhealthy focus on creatures nearly as harmful as Academy's complete disregard of them.
No, academys is a problem because those non-creature decks are inherantly non-interactive decks, the vast vast majority of potentiol decks cannot interact with them at all.
Decks that run almost entirely creatures are extremely interactive decks, both in their ability to interact with their opponent, and enabling the opponent to interact with them.
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 6:40AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2012
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Well, I know most of the people around here are torunament players and see far more than I about matagame and tier 1 decks who see more game in Standard than others.
But, talking more about "casual" play (not saying that these people don't play casual too) and flavor (yeah that's the thing I like most in Magic), some deck (guilds) are far more overpowered than anothers.
And for me, that's not the case of Rakdos.
I really know that Wizards wanted to do a creature-based deck with a creature based keywords (same apply on Scavenge, Detain and Populate), but Unleash, even thought has everything to do with Rakdos, seems a bit unfair compared to other decks, considering the costs of creatures with Unleash ant their habilities and cost/real pow/res.
Mean... nice, we have a 1 drop that can be turned 2/2, cool. But the fact it can't block (as almost everyone in Rakdos) is not the great shot. Even thought the deck focus on offensive through creatures, it's vulnerable and Rakdos creatures don't seem strong enought to trade punches with a 3 drop, 4/4 elephant... or a 3 drop, 3/3 with haste, scavenge and that can actually, stop your offensive.
I loved Rakdos, Lord of Riots, but... the guild decks seems to rely totaly on him. Mean... if Rakdos die, you'll have a hard time to play the really powerfull creatures of your deck in comparission to the other guilds hability to play as powerfull creatures as yours and with less (if NO) drawback.
The old Rakdos deck, at least as I had played before, was offensive and reckless too... but far more resourcefull, and this one almost have no spells to support the gameplay and the cards don't have the same synergy as the other guilds have. Ok, this mean that Rakdos don't care about themselves or helping each other... but yet, they're a guild, a group and seek a common goal.
And before people say I'm a "crying Rakdos lover", I'll tell that I like to play blue/black decks (Dimir) since I had begun to play Magic. BUT, I like to see fair play around every colors and decks, so I don't think is unfair to want to see all guilds playing in equal terms based on their own mechanics.
And sorry for the long post.... xP
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 7:00AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2007
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@Chris_Ferreia
All of my friends have been lamenting the shaft Rakdos has been getting while anything Blue related is awesome.
If only Snapcaster had been Red...
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10 months ago ::
Sep 21, 2012 - 7:27AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2010
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Vapor Ops test please! I'd love to see it. @Acritter: Yes, Necro ran plenty of creatures. However, the cards that made Necro win were Necropotence , Dark Ritual , and Hymn to Tourach - it wasn't getting there on the raw strength of Knight of Stromgald . The spells were what defined the deck; the creatures were just kinda there, mandatory the way lands are mandatory. And it may be that that's fine with you, but you're definitely in the minority.
 Goblin Artisans a Magic: the Gathering design blog
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