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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 5:01PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2010
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Ashen Ghoul has a fail on text or what? I mean, the one from "coldsnap theme decks" says: {B}: Return Ashen Ghoul from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep and only if three or more creature cards are above Ashen Ghoul.And the one from "Ice age" says: {B}: Return Ashen Ghoul into play under your control. Use this ability at the end of your upkeep and only if Ashen Ghoul is in your graveyard with at least three creature cards above it.You can see the cards printed in two editions: Coldsnap Theme decks magiccards.info/cstd/en/20.htmlIce Age magiccards.info/ia/en/2.htmlWhat does it mean? When can his ability be played? Untap step Upkeep Draw step Main1 Declare attackers Declare blockers Combat damage step Main2 Cleanup step End ???
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 5:07PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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What's in the Oracle is all that matters, and the Oracle shows Ashen Ghoul  having the following two abilities: Haste
 : Return Ashen Ghoul from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep and only if three or more creature cards are above Ashen Ghoul.
In this case, the text of the card was changed for clarity, that's all. That you can't tell the printed text on both is effectively the same goes to show how unclear it was before the change. One of the changes to wording that affected a huge number of cards (including Ashen Ghoul) is the switch from "put into play" to "put on the battlefield".
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 5:47PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2010
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What's in the Oracle is all that matters, and the Oracle shows Ashen Ghoul having the following two abilities:
Haste
: Return Ashen Ghoul from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep and only if three or more creature cards are above Ashen Ghoul.
In this case, the text of the card was changed for clarity, that's all. That you can't tell the printed text on both is effectively the same goes to show how unclear it was before the change. One of the changes to wording that affected a huge number of cards (including Ashen Ghoul) is the switch from "put into play" to "put on the battlefield".
I was not meaning this text change, I was meaning the change from "at the end of your upkeep" to "during your upkeep", that is what I was not understanding.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 5:51PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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I was not meaning this text change, I was meaning the change from "at the end of your upkeep" to "during your upkeep", that is what I was not understanding.
The Oracle text is the only one that matters. It's the Errated and Updated version of any card. All cards works using the text found in the Oracle, above any particular oudated printing. If you want to know the why, the rules changed. Simple as that. You don't do things 'at the end' of a step or phase, it's not how the rules work currently. Doing it during the step itself is the closest thing under current rules, so it's how Ashen Ghoul works now.
[<o>]
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:06PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2010
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I was not meaning this text change, I was meaning the change from "at the end of your upkeep" to "during your upkeep", that is what I was not understanding.
The Oracle text is the only one that matters. It's the Errated and Updated version of any card. All cards works using the text found in the Oracle, above any particular oudated printing.
If you want to know the why, the rules changed. Simple as that. You don't do things 'at the end' of a step or phase, it's not how the rules work currently. Doing it during the step itself is the closest thing under current rules, so it's how Ashen Ghoul works now.
So at the moment I can only play Ashen Ghoul before drawing
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:36PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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So at the moment I can only play Ashen Ghoul before drawing
You can only activate the ability before that draw, and this is not a change.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 19, 2012 - 6:55PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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So at the moment I can only play return Ashen Ghoul to the battlefield before drawing
and this was always true since the Alpha Rules
Original Rulebook Pg 11
Game Turn
Both your turn and your rival's turn follow the same pattern. A game turn consists of the following phases:
Untap. Untap all your previously tapped lands, creatures, and artifacts.
Upkeep. Deal with any enchantment, creature, or artifact that requires upkeep or has an effect at the start of a turn. The card will tell you if a given item requires upkeep.
Draw. Draw one card from your library.
Main. You may do several things during the main phase. In no particular order: (a) You may put any one land from your hand into play. Mana from this land may be used during the current turn. (b) You may make one attack against your rival with any or all of your creatures in play except those that came into play this turn. Newly summoned creatures cannot be used until the next turn. (c) You may cast any spells in your hand, provided you have enough mana. You can cast spells before and after taking other actions.
Discard. If you have more than seven cards in your hand, discard until you again have only seven.
End. Let your rival know you are finished. Unless an action described above includes the word may, you must perform this action.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 4:07AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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So at the moment I can only play Ashen Ghoul before drawing
And you were never able to do at any other time. All that changed is the way the card text tells you that. Ashen Ghoul has no functional errata, just updated wording to keep the same functionality under current turn structure. As 2Goth's quote says, drawing the turn's card was always after upkeep, so doing something 'at the end' of the upkeep or 'during' the upkeep always was and still is before the draw.
[<o>]
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 5:47AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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At the end of your turn is commonly used in casual phrasing, but there is a phase called the end of turn phase. So, this makes sense in the context of "at end of turn."
However, "at the end of your upkeep" doesn't really mean anything rules-wise. Once both players pass priority with the stack clear, the step will end. There's no "end of upkeep" opportunity for the old text to have referenced -- there's during your upkeep and "oops, upkeep is over now."
I guess the original intent of the card was to clarify that you had to wait until anything that triggered at the beginning of your upkeep to actually trigger before you could activate the ability.
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