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Switch to Forum Live View EDH Ban List Changes: September 2012
10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:42PM #1
Slivers79
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Posts: 233
Banned: Primeval Titan, Worldfire

Unbanned as a card in the deck: Kokusho, the Evening Star

Banned as a Commander: Kokusho, the Evening Star

Full ban list here: mtgcommander.net/rules.php

My thoughts: 
Worldfire, much like Sway of the Stars, was headed straight for the chopping block in Commander as part of an abusive combo that is easy to put together.  Perhaps in future sets, there may be new cards to interact with the combo, but for the present, it's banned.

Primeval Titan, on the other hand, was always going to hit the chopping block but took his time getting there. I'm a bit surprised it took this long. He's the one titan everyone loves playing, and if you were playing green in Commander, you played Primeval Titan (and ways to put him in play). If he searched for basic lands instead of non-basic lands, I think he stays legal. However, the ability to search for Maze of Ith and Strip Mine meant that he was always going to be an abusive, one-sided creature whose sole purpose is to let a player win with lands. Since rare lands are often the most expensive cards around, this often produced a monetary gap between players. I have seen this misattributed as a skill gap. Money is not skill. 

Kokusho was always a card that I felt had a place in Commander. He works well with Living Death themed decks and Rite of Replication. At this point, neither strategy should surprise anyone. Being banned as a commander means that decks with Cabal Coffers can't just cast him and sacrifice him every turn for as long as they want. Gotta be a little more creative than that. Creativity is good for every format.
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 4:56PM #2
RxPhantom
Date Joined: Jun 29, 2011
Posts: 1,861
Are you effing kidding me?!  Primeval Titan ?!  How effing stupid!  And Kokusho is unbanned?!  This blows, and I don't think my playgroup will honor it.
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:00PM #3
Slivers79
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Posts: 233

Sep 18, 2012 -- 4:56PM, RxPhantom wrote:

Are you effing kidding me?!  Primeval Titan ?!  How effing stupid!  And Kokusho is unbanned?!  This blows, and I don't think my playgroup will honor it.




As someone who has played EDH for years now, I can definitely see where they are coming from with the Titan. Not sure about Kokusho. They unbanned Worldgorger Dragon a little bit ago, but I haven't seen it make a significant impact in the metagames I'm in.

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:03PM #4
Projektnine99
Date Joined: Dec 30, 2010
Posts: 82
I play the Titan as a mana fixer not in the degenerate ways that you are talking about.  Kinda sad to see it go, but I understand the reasoning.  And my play group is super anal about the EDH rules so got to do, what you got to do.
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:43PM #5
niheloim
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2008
Posts: 6,408
BS

Primeval titan only highlighted decks that weren't up to snuff.

This is a ban I will not be honoring.
When playing Commander, before you add a card to your deck, you have to ask yourself:
"Is this card better than Rings ?"
If you play commander and don't have your deck[s] in the Decklist Compendium, maybe you should. Or if you're new or looking into the format, the compendium has some good advice for beginners as well as decklists.

3DH4LIF3

We should all have one of these playable from our sideboards
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:46PM #6
JundNeos
Date Joined: Jan 21, 2010
Posts: 333
You ban Primeval and unban Kokusho? I can't see the logic behind that. Primeval is a good card, but it never broke the games that I went against it. As for unbanning Kokusho, that just leaves the game open to his degenerate combos again. As a card in the deck, it will be even easier to set up his shenanigans. 

It feels like the banning is less logic and more of just breaking down the game even more. Now that Kokusho is unbanned everyone will be subject to his degenerate combos.

The only card I agree with is Worldfire. That's just unfun all around. 
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:50PM #7
Dark_blue_mythical_dragon
Date Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Posts: 19
I have only been playing commander for about 7 months now and in most of the games I have played, primeval titan was a game changer.
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:54PM #8
niheloim
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2008
Posts: 6,408
Prime time changed games with abusive decks in them (the way koko does), and games with a severely mismatched power levels.

If you lose to prime time in a multiplayer game some of the decks being played suck (relatively speaking).
When playing Commander, before you add a card to your deck, you have to ask yourself:
"Is this card better than Rings ?"
If you play commander and don't have your deck[s] in the Decklist Compendium, maybe you should. Or if you're new or looking into the format, the compendium has some good advice for beginners as well as decklists.

3DH4LIF3

We should all have one of these playable from our sideboards
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 5:56PM #9
JundNeos
Date Joined: Jan 21, 2010
Posts: 333
Its true. There have been times when Primeval Titan has hit the field, but he never broke the game. He either got stolen, cloned, or revived from the grave by someone else. 

But I don't think his ban will stick. Far too many people love the card to follow the ban. 
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 6:01PM #10
niheloim
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2008
Posts: 6,408
I may have to build a cromat banned list deck...
When playing Commander, before you add a card to your deck, you have to ask yourself:
"Is this card better than Rings ?"
If you play commander and don't have your deck[s] in the Decklist Compendium, maybe you should. Or if you're new or looking into the format, the compendium has some good advice for beginners as well as decklists.

3DH4LIF3

We should all have one of these playable from our sideboards
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