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Switch to Forum Live View 9/19/2012: A Planeswalker's Guide to Return to Ravnica, Part 3
9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 2:34PM #1
trickjarrett
Date Joined: Apr 30, 2005
Posts: 524
This thread is for discussion of the third part of A Planeswalker's Guide to Return to Ravnica, which goes live on Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 10:21PM #2
crimson_sunrise
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 241
I really get the sinking feeling that even the creative team is biased towards blue/X guilds. They're the only ones that aren't portrayed as completely insane, and this new version of the Azorius is less bureaucracy-gone-global and oddly . . . reasonable. I mean, why the Hades would they like the Izzet? Did it ever occur to you guys that part of the reason why so many people "identify" as blue/X guilds is that you suggest that joining any other would result in death within five minutes? What ever happened to having a range of appealing things for various parts of the audience?
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 10:50PM #3
Ximenez
Date Joined: Apr 15, 2011
Posts: 29
I don't know... to me the Izzet seem much more unhinged than the Golgari. In any case, the Azorius probably had to adapt after Prahv was destroyed.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 10:56PM #4
occamsrazorwit
Date Joined: Oct 1, 2011
Posts: 28

Massacre Girl's spikers are particularly notorious for their random acts of violence.



As the bounty on Massacre Girl rose, so did the number of imitators (Thrill-Kill Assassin).




WHO IS MASSACRE GIRL? I MUST KNOW. 

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 10:57PM #5
Qilong
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 2,226

Sep 18, 2012 -- 10:50PM, Ximenez wrote:

I don't know... to me the Izzet seem much more unhinged than the Golgari. In any case, the Azorius probably had to adapt after Prahv was destroyed.




Unhinged? You aren't getting the hints, are you? There is a strong undercurrent in the stories that the Izzet are being treated with more suspicion than ANY other guild, largely due to the "unknown" designs of Nivvy himself. (Or is that "Himself"?) In fact, it seems there is a trend toward reflecting on the uncertainty and mystery of Nivvy's designs than on the known purposes of the other guilds.

(What I do not like, however, is that the Azorius are now the Law and the Legislature: they make, enforce, and prosecute the laws, whereas the enforcement -- and detainment -- aspects were originally in the purview of the Boros Legion and the Wojek, which were essentially Federal and "state" enforcements. The Boros seem to have been relegated to "Army," which is odd because there is only ONE government, which says that there is a massive amount of overlap with Azorius' assumption of enforcement and detainment duties.)

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."

"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 11:37PM #6
Fireballmage
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2012
Posts: 243
The Rakdos are written so one-dimensionally it hurts.

"It's members are sadistic and cruel simply for the fun of it." 

Well, thank you for clearing that ambiguous morality out of the way. No "At best they are nice, at worse they are mean" stuff like for the Azorius. Rakdos are not your friends. Ever.

"Many Rings run multiple clubs within them, which sometimes only last weeks or months before they are shut down by a mass murder, major fire, or—sometimes—by the law enforcement of other guilds."

"There's a lot of violence between cult members, as well as random "family" groups who live nomadic existences in squat houses throughout Ravnica. Most cult members live hard and die young."

Why would anybody want to join these people? Why? 

 "These mages lead Rakdos festivals. They often have dramatic, chaotic personalities and colorful names that rival the pit fighters. They know how to put on a show and incite bystanders into joining the festivities." 

"STEP RIGHT UP AND HAVE YOUR CHANCE TO GET STUCK ON A MEAT HOOK!" Yes, that would clearly attract bystanders.

"Rakdos festivals are not only a reward to cult members, but also a pretense for Rakdos thieves to steal anything they can get their hands on while the residents are distracted."

This is actually a pretty cool detail, and it gives a hint to how the guild can support itself. I like it.

"A roustabout is any cult member who hangs around a club, helping out the Ringmaster with whatever tasks are needed, such as cleaning up blood spills or dragging the dead bodies out and leaving them in a gutter in another district. This is not a formal economic arrangement and a roustabout is usually compensated with something other than cash."

...Grim Roustabout is a skeleton. How on Earth does that work?

"In addition to possessing incredible strength, they tend to be good followers, as they rarely show the capacity to think for themselves or even carry out complex orders."

rakdoz r dum hur hur hur
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 18, 2012 - 11:53PM #7
Vektor480
Date Joined: Apr 5, 2008
Posts: 18,652
Rakdos were always like that. Their suicidal recklessness has been their trademark since always, and I don't see why that would change. People seek them because, well, sex. Sure they can't convey these things directly in the article or cards, but it's quite clear in their hints. Some of the flavor text shows that very well. Also, "debauchery clubs". Besides that, there's the whole "underworld entertainement" thing, with fights to death and so on. Some people are just twisted and like those forms of "entertainement". Pit fighters and goblins dying. It's not hard to imagine Orzhov clerics sneaking out of their mansions at night to watch these things. Now, why would someone join the guild? Because htey are psycopaths and want to be free to kill without guilt or remorse. Other don't have many options left, and others are undead. After you die, death isn't that threatening anymore. And when you look at it, a painfull death isn't that scary in a world where you can just return as a zombie/skeleton/spirit and still have some fun with your killing. Sure, most guilds make you feel as if you couldn't stay alive for 1 week in there, but then what, they can bring you back as many times as necessary.

However, the new portrait of Azorius somewhat bothers me. As said before, they just seem... alright. They seem just and fair, something that anyone happy with society would have no problem embracing. So, what was the idea? To get more people to like them? I don't know. I liked their previous interpratation a lot, since I tend to like villains much more than the conventional ones. I completely agree with Qilong's comment about them enforcing laws and leaving the Boros either shafted or conflicted. When the article says:

"When we have the ear of the Legion, they are instrumental in executing operations that the Senate cannot or will not undertake. When the Legion becomes the tool of another guild, we have no greater enemy."


it just sounds like they are mercenaries for hire. What's up with all the law enforcement the Boros had, their identity of glorious combat, all of that? They just feel like puppets and weapons-for-hire from that short paragraph.
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Jan 14, 2012 -- 5:42PM, Vektor480 wrote:

I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".


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  The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy



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Mar 17, 2011 -- 10:28PM, Qmark wrote:

Mar 17, 2011 -- 10:15PM, ROBRAM89 wrote:

Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.

Now, now.
1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".


Oct 11, 2011 -- 9:43PM, Tevish_Szat wrote:

Oh, it's a brilliant plan.  You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat.  Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit.  He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee.  "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk.  He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy.  He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right.  Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms.
"THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!"

And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.


Feb 25, 2012 -- 2:54PM, Mown wrote:

Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.


Jul 11, 2011 -- 10:47PM, Qmark wrote:

Jul 11, 2011 -- 10:36PM, SleetFox wrote:

This thread has gotten creepy.  XP

Really?
Really?

The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?


Jun 26, 2011 -- 5:52AM, MrQuizzles wrote:

Jun 26, 2011 -- 4:59AM, Mown wrote:

Jun 26, 2011 -- 4:44AM, skeindubh wrote:


4 tropical island
4 savannah
4 bayou
4 taiga
4 savannah


Nice mana base.
Not really.



Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.


May 2, 2011 -- 8:18AM, desolation_masticore wrote:

I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.


Apr 3, 2011 -- 1:39AM, DrWorm wrote:

Apr 3, 2011 -- 12:02AM, crazysamaritan wrote:

Of course, the best use [of tolaria west ] is transmuting for the real Tolaria.



Absolutely.  I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria , and I was finally able win my first game.


Aug 30, 2011 -- 5:17PM, Maraxas-of-Keld wrote:

WOAH

wait wait wait

Aug 30, 2011 -- 5:07PM, RPJesus wrote:

You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"



Aug 30, 2011 -- 5:07PM, RPJesus wrote:

"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"



Aug 30, 2011 -- 5:07PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates



Aug 30, 2011 -- 5:07PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jon infiltrated



OH MY GOD


Nov 22, 2011 -- 3:52PM, Pontiac wrote:

The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.


Oct 10, 2011 -- 8:55PM, Glasir wrote:

The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.


Jan 21, 2011 -- 7:11AM, Qmark wrote:


Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available.
"No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.


Jul 10, 2012 -- 11:28AM, Dragon_Nut wrote:

Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.



Aug 3, 2011 -- 6:46PM, ChaosLight wrote:

You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.


Oct 10, 2011 -- 7:30PM, Vektor480 wrote:

Oct 10, 2011 -- 5:53PM, Rubik wrote:

You just... Vektor it.


That's the answer to everything.


Jan 17, 2011 -- 6:16PM, Maraxas-of-Keld wrote:

Jan 17, 2011 -- 5:58PM, Ragnarokio wrote:


I think the problem is that you don't exist.


This would sound great out of context!


Dec 19, 2011 -- 9:07PM, Dilleux_Lepaire wrote:

Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.


Aug 4, 2011 -- 2:15PM, Mown wrote:

Aug 4, 2011 -- 1:45PM, Suudsu2200 wrote:


I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.


You make it sound like that's still not the case.


Jan 4, 2011 -- 3:04AM, Niklor wrote:

Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.


Doug Beyer:

But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:32PM, Terti wrote:

Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :


Aug 15, 2011 -- 8:06PM, Veslfen wrote:

to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.


Aug 1, 2011 -- 12:35AM, Ragnarokio wrote:

when in rome RAPE AND PILLAGE


Jan 31, 2012 -- 11:23AM, TchainT wrote:

I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.


Dymecoar:

Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets.  You can do it...but why?


Omega137:

Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right."
Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"


Zigeif777:

Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.


Apr 1, 2011 -- 10:29AM, JustTerrorIt wrote:

Apr 1, 2011 -- 10:09AM, quadibloc wrote:

It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf , Darksteel Colossus , or Platinum Angel . It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus , Mox Sapphire , and Time Walk .


Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.


Sep 26, 2010 -- 5:11PM, Test-Subject_217601 wrote:

Sep 26, 2010 -- 5:06PM, NeoMint wrote:

I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...


They can when they're using lightsabers !


Sep 19, 2011 -- 11:59AM, Sebanovich wrote:

Sep 19, 2011 -- 11:54AM, Long_Con wrote:

My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days.  We named it Grixis, but it died. 


Unearth it!


Jan 15, 2011 -- 8:07PM, Maraxas-of-Keld wrote:

I'm a Da Vinci Neurok.





And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you?
Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now.
Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 12:06AM #8
Tap4Mana
Date Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 606
You were expecting subtlety and nuance to the black and red guild?  The one that is a cult lead by a demon?   ...Kind of barking up the wrong tree with that one.

As for Rakdos himself, I think its a pretty solid design.  He's crazy efficient, befitting of a legendary creature, and both his drawback and beneficial ability key off of life loss, something that both black and red are quite fond of.  Might be too good, but not disgustingly so.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 12:16AM #9
Bloodartist
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2012
Posts: 234
"Sanity... is for the WEAK!"
— Various followers of Chaos, warhammer 40000

 Muah hah hah! 
I approve of this article.  

Sep 18, 2012 -- 11:37PM, Fireballmage wrote:


Why would anybody want to join these people? Why? 

"STEP RIGHT UP AND HAVE YOUR CHANCE TO GET STUCK ON A MEAT HOOK!" Yes, that would clearly attract bystanders.



Take your chance to NOT end up in the meat hook and join our entertaining guild! - Some recruitment methods are better than others 

Also, because they want to live  hard and die young? Would you rather languish your life away in some Azorius administrative building pushing pencils?

Sep 18, 2012 -- 10:21PM, crimson_sunrise wrote:

I really get the sinking feeling that even the creative team is biased towards blue/X guilds. They're the only ones that aren't portrayed as completely insane, and this new version of the Azorius is less bureaucracy-gone-global and oddly . . . reasonable. I mean, why the Hades would they like the Izzet?




I think Azorius may like the Izzet because Izzet provides machinery that helps run the city. 

"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

Proud member of the Rakdos guild
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 1:14AM #10
occamsrazorwit
Date Joined: Oct 1, 2011
Posts: 28

Sep 18, 2012 -- 11:37PM, Fireballmage wrote:

The Rakdos are written so one-dimensionally it hurts.

"It's members are sadistic and cruel simply for the fun of it." 
...
"There's a lot of violence between cult members, as well as random "family" groups who live nomadic existences in squat houses throughout Ravnica. Most cult members live hard and die young."

Why would anybody want to join these people? Why?




I see them as a violent, bloodthirsty gang. Some analogies that come to mind are the Joker and his followers from "The Dark Knight," the Neo-Gotham Jokerz gang from "Batman Beyond," Crips vs Bloods-style gangs, and Alex's group from "A Clockwork Orange."

Sep 18, 2012 -- 11:37PM, Fireballmage wrote:

"In addition to possessing incredible strength, they tend to be good followers, as they rarely show the capacity to think for themselves or even carry out complex orders."

rakdoz r dum hur hur hur




This is just saying that the Rakdos have grunts. I'm sure every guild has their own grunts (Azorius enforcers, Selesnya beasts, etc).

Sep 18, 2012 -- 11:53PM, Vektor480 wrote:

"When we have the ear of the Legion, they are instrumental in executing operations that the Senate cannot or will not undertake. When the Legion becomes the tool of another guild, we have no greater enemy."

it just sounds like they are mercenaries for hire. What's up with all the law enforcement the Boros had, their identity of glorious combat, all of that? They just feel like puppets and weapons-for-hire from that short paragraph.




Keep in mind that this is from the Azorius' viewpoint. From their condescending viewpoint, the Boros might be just another tool in their arsenal.

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