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Magic: The Gathering Daily MtG Article .. 9/19/2012: A Planeswalker's Guide to Return to...
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Switch to Forum Live View 9/19/2012: A Planeswalker's Guide to Return to Ravnica, Part 3
9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:01AM #31
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,459

Sep 18, 2012 -- 11:53PM, Vektor480 wrote:

However, the new portrait of Azorius somewhat bothers me. As said before, they just seem... alright. They seem just and fair, something that anyone happy with society would have no problem embracing. So, what was the idea? To get more people to like them? I don't know. I liked their previous interpratation a lot, since I tend to like villains much more than the conventional ones.


If you want the evil, obstructive for the sake of it, over-obsessive with details and randomly stubborn side of the Azorius, read Jenna's story The Shadows of Prahv. After Wizards published that, everyone was complaining that the Azorius came across as too nasty, self-absorbed, unfair, useless and pointless. After Wizards published this Part of the Planeswalker's Guide, people are complaining that the Azorius seem too reasonable, excessively fair, only mildly obstructive and insufficiently self-absorbed? You really can't win, can you?

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:06AM #32
Shamsiel
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2011
Posts: 1,748

Oh sure, psychological corruption it's a part of White. It's also a part of every single other color. Most mind alteration Magic is Blue.




Still, the point stands: can "corrupt".

Our dear friends the Selesnyans engage in brainwashing, after all.


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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:16AM #33
Fenix.
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2012
Posts: 3,011

Sep 19, 2012 -- 8:01AM, alextfish wrote:

After Wizards published that, everyone was complaining that the Azorius came across as too nasty, self-absorbed, unfair, useless and pointless.



People just don't want to accept the truth. That was quite an accurate portrayal of Azorius, in my opinion.


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Nov 27, 2012 -- 6:39AM, Mata_Hari wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 12:26AM, BankaiMastery wrote:

Okay, here is the clincher. I've been waiting to say this.

The "cam girl" this was inspired by was just a girl from a social networking website, Stickam. Her name was TinyTerror and she was just a regular girl who was on her webcam, totally unrelated to any type of adult content.

I hope you all feel really smart now.

This is like someone coming into class with a bloody nose and everyone's like "Jeez what happened to you" and they're like "I ran into a wall" and everyone laughs at them for being an idiot but then at the end of the class they say "HAHA JUST KIDDING I PUNCHED MYSELF IN THE FACE!!!!!! TALK ABOUT OWNED HAHAHAHAHA"


Oct 25, 2012 -- 9:53PM, magicpablo666 wrote:

I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.


Sorin walked into the chamber where his newly wed bride, Vampy, awaited. A beam of moonlight illuminated his brilliant silver hair as he strode with confidence towards the bed. His shirtless body showcased his powerful abdominal muscles and he was wearing jeans with holes in the knees.


Nov 24, 2012 -- 8:07PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

Nov 24, 2012 -- 7:19PM, CherylCheryl wrote:

I wish more girls play magic cards...


Have you considered assassinating Kevin?

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:28AM #34
Darion_
Date Joined: Dec 1, 2005
Posts: 244
I rather like the current take on the Azorius Senate. In Dissension they felt rather stupid to me, trying to stop change altogether whereas now they're at least a bit more practical and reasonable. Not all the guilds have to be carbon copies of what they were like in Ravnica Block anyway. It stands to reason that the Azorius would learn from their mistakes and be a bit more cooperative towards other guilds this time around.

Them liking the Izzet did initially strike me as odd, but compared to the other guilds, the Izzet really seem like the least of their worries. They generally obey the laws, their guild leader personally helped in defeating the Nephilim (IIRC) and they have never shown any malicious intent. They also have no political or philosophical agenda, which has to count for a lot in Ravnica. So the Izzet and the Azorius seeing eye to eye does makes sense to me.

I also get the impression they're setting up the Boros to be one of the bad guys in this block, which would be pretty cool.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:31AM #35
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,833
The Azorius comments have me excited for when the Orzhov will appear; they have the potential to be the most thematically fascinating guild, if they're done right.  I also like the bit about how the Azorius, who write the laws, also have a division to prevent the laws from being enforced.  Only White-Blue would think this is reasonable.  (The "k" in Konstructors really annoys me though.)

The Rakdos article was better than I was afraid it would be, but not by much.  They still are only interested in positioning the RB guild as destructive maniacs, which does match the playstyle of those colors, but is a huge shortfall compared to what the color combo should represent philosophically, just as those colors individually have always gotten short shrift.  Absolutely no explanation is given for how a guild, whose modus operandi is for members to intentionally shorten their own lives, fails to go extinct within days .  You could go with the old P.T. Barnum line about what happens every minute, but even on a hugely overpopulated plane, this stretches credibility wire-thin.

What RB should be is the guild of risk, danger, seductive madness - living on the bleeding edge of extinction, taking pleasure in pain, going as close as possible to "too far" without leaving behind the "almost".  The Rakdos's recruiters should ooze sensuality, encourage people to flirt with disaster and stare into the void until it blinks, and preach a philosophy that you're never more alive than when a terrifying brush with death has left your heart beating a mile a minute.  For the goblins and ogres, perhaps, this is wasted words, and you can just wind them up and let them wreak havoc.  But humans should still have a self-preservation instinct and an overwhelmingly powerful fear-response which kicks their adrenaline into high gear; they shouldn't willingly go near a gang of psychopaths who take joy in the use of rusty meathooks, not without some serious incentive.  Obviously this is a PG game and they can't go into much detail about the kind of debauchery that makes a good lure for this kind of crowd, but then even the best sex in the world is not going to convince most people to throw their lives away by hanging with a crowd that would rather kill you than look at you.  The gambling, thrill-seeking, envelope-pushing aspect ought to be enough to create a compelling guild, instead of one that comes out looking like a one-joke routine.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 8:51AM #36
MarkXero
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Posts: 159

Sep 19, 2012 -- 8:06AM, Shamsiel wrote:

Still, the point stands: can "corrupt".

Our dear friends the Selesnyans engage in brainwashing, after all.




I'm dubious about the synonymity of brainwashing and corruption, but if we allow that as a very narrow, singular aspect of corruption then yep, I'll go with that as can corrupt. I hardly think that's what most people would ever think of when they hear the word 'corrupt' though, and I doubt you do really either. Brainwashing is more a denial of freedom (of thought, in this case), and that kind of restriction so you better conform to the group is very .

ETA: Actually, maybe I shouldn't be that dubious. Brainwashing where the implication is that ideas and ideals are planted that are contrary to the previous nature of the subject must surely be corruption? I'm still not sure I'd say the Selesnyans 'corrupted' their converts though. It may be technically correct, but it feels like a fairly convoluted use of the word.

We're a long way here from Fenix saying the corruption of an Azorius bureaucrat is 'white incarnate' though. The very implication of that corruption is that it will be self-serving, which is the definition of and the antithesis of . I can think of a dozen words that would more fully describe incarnate before I ever got to 'corrupting'.


I agree with Darion about the Boros possibly being set up to be (one of) the bad guys this time round. I imagine a zealous band of mercenaries (who seem likely to be even more zealous under Aurelia) should be right up your street as villains?

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 9:23AM #37
Demento_Recraves
Date Joined: Sep 18, 2005
Posts: 349
As far as people wondering why anyone would join Rakdos.  In addition to psychopaths and all that jazz, am I the only one who got the vibe a lot of Rakdos members are drug addicts?  I don't know anything about Ravnica's stance on drugs, but I have to imagine that Rakdos is probably the #1 provider of recreational drugs.  And if you look at contemporary society, there are plenty of people who would join Rakdos to 'get their fix'.  Also, depending on the magnitude/effects of the drugs, self-mutilation or letting yourself get sacrificed might have seemed like a good idea at the time...

For a more kid friendly version replace each use of the word 'drug' with 'magic'! 
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 9:45AM #38
Shamsiel
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2011
Posts: 1,748
Sex addiction defenitely is implied, so why not drugs?

(I would love to see ravnican PSAs)

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 10:18AM #39
WTFsenseiLOL
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2011
Posts: 16

Sep 19, 2012 -- 9:23AM, Demento_Recraves wrote:

As far as people wondering why anyone would join Rakdos.  In addition to psychopaths and all that jazz, am I the only one who got the vibe a lot of Rakdos members are drug addicts?  I don't know anything about Ravnica's stance on drugs, but I have to imagine that Rakdos is probably the #1 provider of recreational drugs.  And if you look at contemporary society, there are plenty of people who would join Rakdos to 'get their fix'.  Also, depending on the magnitude/effects of the drugs, self-mutilation or letting yourself get sacrificed might have seemed like a good idea at the time...

For a more kid friendly version replace each use of the word 'drug' with 'magic'! 




So yeah, the Cult of Rakdos is the cult of Sex and Drugs - and maybe Rock & Roll. Given that this game is PG-13 they can only hint at sex from afar and to drug use from even further. But think about it: There are tons of drugs that are associated with self mutilation and violence. Now think about the kind of fix you can get from magic enhanced drugs.

"Word is on the street of a new drug named "the limber". The trip is strong, wracking and ecstatic, but the limb you inject it in will rot and fall apart. Still, some people are willing to lose an arm and a leg to get another fix. You can get it from the Wrecking Ball Club for the right price if you know the right guy. I am the right guy."

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 19, 2012 - 10:19AM #40
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,459
I do very much like willpell's description of Rakdos. I don't identify as BR at all (I'm Wu), but I find the Rakdos in willpell's description much more believable, nuanced, and realistic than the caricature in this article. And for that matter, more empathisable-with; how many Rakdos fans will really identify with a guild composed entirely of psychopaths and sadomasochists with a death wish? Some, but surely not the 10% of the customer base that Wizards would presumably want to, given the whole "MY GUILD" thing.

On a different note: "It's members are sadistic"? Really? On a professional website, in one of the normally most polished columns on this site? Get a much better editor.
 
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