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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 9:35PM
#141
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2010
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this is some good discussion going on.
what are y'alls thought about our two drop slot? ash zealot is a 4 off for sure but what do we think about gorehouse or shred freak? just curious what everyone's thoughts are , i like shred freak but what do yall think? also dread bore is amaxing but so so slow ya know?
I'll let ya know as soon as I get to play the deck, but I have a feeling I'm gonna end up going with Rakdos Shred-Freak  simply because he has Haste where Gore-House Chainwalker  doesn't. And, Haste means so much to the kind of deck we play. Also, while Dreadbore  may be slower than Tragic Slip  , you may find yourself in a situation where you can't fulfill the condition for Tragic Slip to gain its Morbid effect. It's a one drop which is nice, but if you don't have any creatures to sac or some of the opponent's creatures are large walls that wouldn't kill your creature but wouldn't destroy the wall either, it'd be worth it to have Dreadbore around. That way, you wouldn't have to rely on pure burn for the rest of the game to win. But, I wouldn't count out Ultimate Price  either. There are still *so many cards* that will be played that are single color, and Ultimate Price can take care of them with only a single black mana and any other color you have making it more restrictive but more versitile at the same time.
SG
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:02PM
#142
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2011
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As was already pointed out, the haste is a big part of why I think Shred-Freak is better than Chainwalker. Another, admittingly weaker argument, is that Shred-Freak is basically colorless in this deck. You can cast him off two swamps if the situation arose. I'm a bit biased though, I love me some hybrid mana.
This is a group discussion on cards, I take nothing personally and I know it's not aimed at me. As for the is it worth the 2 life? Usually I think it is. I would gladly pay 2 life to get out the Ash Zealot or play the Keyrune/Volley/Hellrider/Whatever a turn earlier. They also make me breathe easier when my starting hand has a Blood Crypt and a Dragonskull or two. I don't have to worry about needing a basic land first to start playing stuff. Also on your argument of "if you draw all 4 shocklands", the same thing question can be posed about if you draw all 4 guildgates. Are you screwed because they all come in tapped and you can't play your stuff fast enough?
I admit that if I had a Dreadbore I'd probably try to shoehorn it in the deck. I think it's one of those cards that straddles the line between necessary and winmore. Like, it's not a necessity in the deck if you don't have one. At the same time, though, if you do have one and are playing it, it isn't just a "win-more" card. I think it's a 50-50 on if you should run it or not that hinges more on if you have them and want to play them rather than if you should or shouldn't play them.
Ultimate Price is another card I'm meh on. While there certainliy are a number of monocolored creatures that need to be answered (Gbrand, Avacyn, Angel), there are also a lot of multicolored creatures that need to be answered (Niv Mizzet, Olivia, Armada Wurm). Think this is definitely one of those meta call situations honestly. In defense of Tragic Slip though, I haven't really had any issue triggering morbid when I need/want to. Maybe some of the people that faced me online were bad, but a lot of people will kill your dudes if you ("stupidly") swing into their bigger creature. Also, sometimes I just wanna slip your spirit token, sorin's vampire token, manadorks, or your stupid Falkenrath Aristocrat. Still though, I'm chalking this one up to meta call.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:17PM
#143
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Date Joined:
Apr 30, 2010
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my input on some things.
i am leaning towards the shred freak aswell he just does so much for me. also about the shock lands, the way i play this deck is if they are at 0 before me then i win. so it doesn't matter if i am at 1 as long as they are at 0, so really you don't want to give up speed for a couple of life points here and there, its almost like delver pre rotation, they played so many phyrexian spells but it really didn't matter cause of the aggro/tempo deck they played that they could win off of a piked up delver in 2 turns.
dreadbore is good but i think it is sideboard material, like tragic slip, spear and brimstone volley should be able to take care of most things.
alright another question.
what is everyone's thought on main board bump in the night?
also what do y'all think about deathrite shaman as our new psuedo grim lavamancer? i have been thinking about making a deck maybe a delver deck that ran this guy for more reach but maybe he can do work in this deck?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:27PM
#144
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I have seen posts on Rakdos decks, and posts on Rats deck... but still waiting for people to Post Rakdos Rats decks... I think there is potential for a cool Black Red Rat deck out there that would be relatively budget but still pretty competitive... for those who can't afford to spend more then 100$ on a deck... (P.S. I'm running a deck that is currently somewhere between 600-750$ between maindeck an sideboard) so I would love to see budget decks that can atleast compete with the big money decks that will be out there!
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:29PM
#145
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2011
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my input on some things.
i am leaning towards the shred freak aswell he just does so much for me. also about the shock lands, the way i play this deck is if they are at 0 before me then i win. so it doesn't matter if i am at 1 as long as they are at 0, so really you don't want to give up speed for a couple of life points here and there, its almost like delver pre rotation, they played so many phyrexian spells but it really didn't matter cause of the aggro/tempo deck they played that they could win off of a piked up delver in 2 turns.
dreadbore is good but i think it is sideboard material, like tragic slip, spear and brimstone volley should be able to take care of most things.
alright another question.
what is everyone's thought on main board bump in the night?
also what do y'all think about deathrite shaman as our new psuedo grim lavamancer? i have been thinking about making a deck maybe a delver deck that ran this guy for more reach but maybe he can do work in this deck?
I personally think Bump in the Night is pretty terrible. Sorcery speed and can't pull double duty as creature removal. You should also never be able to flash it back. If that's what you're spending 6 mana on you've probably lost that game. I don't know about Shaman fitting in either. I thought about it, but he just doesn't seem to do enough in our matchup. He's a house in a lot of decks that are more midrangey and/or looking to get more mileage. We can't use his green ability (which could be one of the better abilities for us) and his others are very dependant on other factors. If you play against a creature heavy deck, he isn't doing much. There's a chance he just sits there and durdles as a 1/2. His black ability also only targets players so it can't hit creatures. If it could I'd consider it more. Keep in mind though, all of this is just my opinion.
On an unrelated note, people I play against keep asking me if I saw this on Reddit because apparently there was an article about building a similar deck to this for its strength and budgetness. Makes me kind of sad because I built this before the article was posted and I don't like Reddit :/
I do, however, see this as Ravnica's RDW. It is cheap, strong, and one of the fastest decks in the format. That being said the decks it kind of folds to will be played a lot in the bigger tournaments so it likely will not receive that much acclaim or notice. I think it has potential to be successful at FNM and various small to midscale tournaments like SCG's or whatever.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:30PM
#146
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2010
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This is a group discussion on cards, I take nothing personally and I know it's not aimed at me. As for the is it worth the 2 life? Usually I think it is. I would gladly pay 2 life to get out the Ash Zealot or play the Keyrune/Volley/Hellrider/Whatever a turn earlier. They also make me breathe easier when my starting hand has a Blood Crypt and a Dragonskull or two. I don't have to worry about needing a basic land first to start playing stuff. Also on your argument of "if you draw all 4 shocklands", the same thing question can be posed about if you draw all 4 guildgates. Are you screwed because they all come in tapped and you can't play your stuff fast enough?
Valid question, but I think the answer is no. If you are playing Guildgates and drew those as your only mana (even on a deck like this), would you be completely mana screwed? I don't think so. Yes, there will be times when having that Shock Land is going to mean the difference between winning and losing. But, how often will those situations come up? I think it's a bit too early in RTR's lifecycle to be able to do any kind of in depth analysis (random samples amongst groups all across the country of varying skill levels), but IMHO, I think you'd find that while it's nice to be able to bring out a card a turn earlier, it's not necessary to win the majority of the games you (you meaning anyone in this case) play.
As I mentioned, it'd definitely be nice to bring a card or cards in earlier... always is. But would it make *that* much of a difference overall in say a five round FNM tournament? Again, IMHO, probably not. Plus, is it really worth giving up anywhere from two to eight life points just to bring in a few creatures a turn earlier? Again, IMHO, probably not.
Once again, I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be able to. I just don't think it'd be necessary (except maybe at a regional or higher tournament level).
Again, this is all just conjecture right now as we're not far enough into RTR to be able to do the kind of analysis that's needed to get the kind of numbers to prove or disprove whether or not spending two life to bring a Shock Land in untapped will win more games (keeping in mind that the speed at which you win games doesn't matter... all that does matter, in this case, is that you win them).
SG
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:32PM
#147
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2011
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I have seen posts on Rakdos decks, and posts on Rats deck... but still waiting for people to Post Rakdos Rats decks... I think there is potential for a cool Black Red Rat deck out there that would be relatively budget but still pretty competitive... for those who can't afford to spend more then 100$ on a deck... (P.S. I'm running a deck that is currently somewhere between 600-750$ between maindeck an sideboard) so I would love to see budget decks that can atleast compete with the big money decks that will be out there!
The list I posted has tested well against some of the bigger money decks and was built on 35 dollars plus shocklands.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 11:36PM
#148
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Very Interesting list Doktor. I myself prefere my Knight of Infamy  as a 2 drop with my zealots since I feel i get more out of the 2 mana. I have heard many positive and negative things about Rakdos Shred-Freak . What is everyones opinion on him. Since I have been considering putting Knight of Infamy in the sideboard for against W/X decks and putting another 2 drop in his place.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 12:12AM
#149
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my suggestion on the decklist(im not reading threw 15 pages to see if htis was said yet so srry if it has  1st off: keep rakdos cackler  its the only good unleash card. 2nd: run sign in blood  or cremate  u need hand draw or else ur going to gas out after 2- 3 turns 3rd: take out hellhole flairer  he is horrible and after much play testing he is jsut a burden ide even run bump in the night  over him. u might want to add BITN if u r aggro. it might be a crappy lightning bolt but gets the job done. 4rd:run olivia volderan  over falkenrath aristocrat  . much better board presense wise and if games go long (which sometimes they do) she takes control fast! falkenrath aristocrat to be honest is only good in blood artist  /zombie decks. consider cremate over vile rebirth sieboard if u dont run mainboard. much better to have the card draw over the creature. and u can get rid of any card rather then just a creature.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 2:23AM
#150
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2012
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your post was supposed to be all crossed out since those cards you mentioned, other than the shaman, are virtually unplayable.
I dunno, just to interject at this point I think that folding to Disciple is relevant. People aren't playing it, but that's not the same thing as it being unplayable. I've got a Rock going at the moment and he is absolutely king, never even mind that he spells death for this entire deck. How do you plan to race me when I can draw 5 cards and gain 5 life on turn 4?
I want to be Cultured. 
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