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Sep 16, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Zane_Donovan wrote:

It has late game reach, but honestly, I think that the deck itself is it's own worst enemy in this hypo-aggro format (that could just be my metagame). You have a lot of proliferate, but it looks really slow and easily shut down by anyone running Ancient Grudge, Crushing Vines, Shattering Steel, etc. A possible card to look into would be Delver Extarch (the card that untaps artifacts that Bant Pod and 4C pod uses).

You are right in that it simply was too slow.  I ran it in MTGO, and was a slow mover.  Luckily, I did have enough kill spells and was able to keep enough creatures tapped to get the Tumble Magnet engine truly rolling in this game.  The problem was the lack of any offense.  I don't mind taking a hit here and there, but there were only like two cards that could do any damage to the other player, and that's where my deck completely fell apart.  Plus, I had simply way too many proliferation cards in the deck.  By the time the game was over, most of my counters on all of my counter holding cards was up close to 10, and I hadn't even had to use any of the counters from Surge Node .  Now it has less proliferate, fewer creatures (keeping Vedalken Infuser as it's a good wall}, and more direct damage spells against the player (just hope they aren't running Witchbane Orb as well).  It's a three color deck, but for the other two colors, I'm using dual color lands (as none of the other two colors require more than a single mana of a given color).  Here's what it looks like now:

Lands
4 x Dragonskull Summit
4 x Drowned Catacomb
12 x Island

Creatures
4 x Vedalken Infuser

Other spells
4 x Bump in the Night
2 x Doom Blade
2 x Fuel for the Cause
2 x Grim Affliction
4 x Inexorable Tide
2 x Negate
4 x Searing Spear
4 x Steady Progress
2 x Surge Node
4 x Tezzeret's Gambit
4 x Tumble Magnet
4 x Volt Charge

Sep 16, 2012 -- 12:39PM, Zane_Donovan wrote:

I would use Board Sweepers over things like Searing Spear. Bonfire of the Damned (expensive as it is)

Mutilate or Killing Wave might be a better option since they are far less expensive than Bonfire of the Damned .  Granted, Mutilate and Killing Wave only takes care of creatures... but they could clean all the creatures off the field for a much cheaper price.

Edit: running a couple of Cower in Fear s in the same turn could take care of several creatures as well (unless they are just huge creatures).

SG

Sep 16, 2012 -- 9:21PM, Zane_Donovan wrote:

I would honestly say use Black Sun Zenith, it's just all around better and it gives you card advantage that using Cower In Fear to clean up what your first sweeper didn't does not and it wastes mana that could be spent somewhere else, like proliferate and draw.

Mana is always a good thing to preserve.  The more I can put on the field the better.  But, as far as Proliferate goes, I think even the new version of the deck is super saturated when it comes to proliferation.  While I can't guarantee anything, I'm pretty sure that Tumble Magnet would still have several (if not many more) counters on it when the game ends... for one big reason.  I only got one of these out in a game, and I almost got tired of how many times I had to proliferate.  I ended up losing with zero life while my opponent only had two left.

Inexorable Tide , Surge Node , and Vedalken Infuser .  Let's just play it hypothetically here because there's very little chance that I'll get 'em all out at one time, but let's say I do. 

4 x Inexorable Tide - every single time I play a non-land card, I proliferate with this Enchantment on the field.  If all four were out, all four Tumble Magnet s would get another four counters each and every time I played a non-land card.  Even if I'm actively using Tumble Magnet to tap my opponent's creatures, in a matter if three or four turns, the number of counters on each of the four Tumble Magnet s would be in the teens.  Also, every turn, I can use all four Vedalken Infuser s to add a counter to the Tumble Magnets .  And, if a certain Tumble Magnet came out late or was running short on counters, I could tap a land and use Surge Node to add one of its seven counters to that particular Tumble Magnet .

Since Tumble Magnet requires no mana to use once in play, let's run a scenario here.  All four Tumble Magnet s are on the field, all four Inexorable Tide s are on the field, all four Vedalken Infuser s are on the field, and lastly all four Surge Node s are on the field. 

During upkeep, my Vedalken Infuser s give each of my Tumble Magnet s a counter.  In my Main Phase 1, I play Bump in the Night .  Opponent loses three life.  This triggers all four Inexorable Tide s which gives all four Surge Node s and all four Tumble Magnet s four counters each.  Let's say the opponent has five creatures out.  I can only tap four at this time with Tumble Magnet , so I use a Doom Blade to take care of the fifth creature to make sure he/she can't use it when it's their turn.  That triggers Inexorable Tide again, and each of my Surge Node s and Tumble Magnet s gain four more counters each. 

In this hypothetical situation, I'm still not even done with my turn, but each Tumble Magnet 12 counters and each Surge Node has gained eight counters.  Now, I use four mana to transfer four counters from each Surge Node to each Tumble Magnet .  If by chance they haven't been used yet (and again, just keep in mind this is a hypothetical situation), that means that now each Tumble Magnet has 16 counters on it (probably more than it would need for the entire game), and each Surge Node would have 14 counters.  And, at this point, I haven't even made it out of Main Phase 1 yet.

That's why I don't think this deck is in any way short on proliferation.  The ability to draw a card tacked on to the proliferate cards is very nice.  But, cards like Ponder would allow you not only to draw a card but to have better control of what is on top or your deck or allow you to shuffle your deck if you don't like what's on top.  Plus, Ponder is only a one drop where all of the other cards in the deck that Proliferate and let me draw a card are three and four drops.

I've never actually played this deck in real life, but again, I played a very similar if not identical copy of the first version on MTGO.  Yes, there were decks that could easily beat me.  But, it definitely wasn't for lack of Proliferation.... more the fact that I can't have more than four Tumble Magnet s in my deck at any given time .

SG

Sep 18, 2012 -- 8:49AM, Zane_Donovan wrote:

You are also talking about ideal senerio where things would go uninterupted and you've had time to play out your cards (against aggro it's more likely than anything else until Game Two when they sideboard Ancient Grudge or Crushing Vines). Most of the time you'll probably see 1-2 of the cards unless you're tutoring or Poding. Ponder is actually a good suggestion, you could also use flashback Think Twice to net more draw and leave mana open for the flashback at the end of your opponents turn to make them play around possible counterspells.

You are 100% correct.  I am thinking of an ideal scenario.  I've played this deck in the Just for Fun room on MTGO several times now.  It's one of those decks that I just want to play because Tumble Magnet is my favorite Scars Block card.  And, I've seen at least one very successful deck built around it (been a long time since I played against it though).

Yes, there are aggro decks and mana ramp decks that'll eat this deck for breakfast... but then again, those same decks will take down my Exalted Deck just as fast.  Per your advice, I did buy two (virtual) Black Sun's Zenith , but the few hands I've played since then have been using control or something like Exalted Infect where there's only one or no creatures in play.  And the times where there are creatures in play, my luck of the draw doesn't bring the Black Sun's Zenith to me.

I appreciate the advice about Think Twice .  I didn't really even think about that one as I don't play much Blue at all.  But, playing it and then using it again via Flashback could be very effective.  I appreciate it!

If you have any suggestions about a single card that can really do some damage directly to a player, that would be very helpful.  Even with a playset of each Searing Spear and Bump in the Night , I still can't take an opponent down.

Thanks again for your suggestions and any further suggestions are welcome!

SG