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Switch to Forum Live View 9/17/2012 MM "Return on Investment, Part 3"
10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 9:42AM #11
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,489

Sep 17, 2012 -- 8:29AM, Dragon_Bloodthirsty wrote:

n farther removed from the rare lands.  It's too easy to look at the two cards side by side and say "Oh, that's what playing rares buys me".  I think it was also great that the commons showed up in tournaments in good decks.


AFAICT, the article is saying they tried lots and lots of designs for the common lands that were more distanced from the shocklands, but none of them were suitably common/effective.

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 9:48AM #12
OmegaM
Date Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 617

Sep 17, 2012 -- 1:29AM, Alsadius wrote:

You botched your trivia question. A non-charm with charm in the name? How could you possibly have forgotten about Charm School?


There's also Charm Peddler . Maybe he was referring to spells with the word "Charm" in their names that also represent charm objects?   

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 9:48AM #13
mtgraptor
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 449

Sep 17, 2012 -- 8:29AM, Dragon_Bloodthirsty wrote:


I am skeptical about how the gate lands aren't "strictly worse" than the shock lands.  While I can follow your argument, changing a card's type doesn't carry a lot of weight unless it's something you do a lot.  Being a Goblin matters a lot; being "Arcane" did not matter as much as you seemed to think it did at the time.


The signets did a lot of heavy lifting for the original block; they shouldn't be forgotten.  Telling me that the commons had "more power than intended" is disheartening too.  I'm convinced that one of the reasons Ravnica was popular was because of the powerful common mana-fixers.  The signets (like Boros Signet ) were both common and perfectly matched to the set's theme.


I think the common lands ought to have been farther removed from the rare lands.  It's too easy to look at the two cards side by side and say "Oh, that's what playing rares buys me".  I think it was also great that the commons showed up in tournaments in good decks.



well for one there's that card that can fetch basic lands or gates so that's one where shocklands can't go

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 10:04AM #14
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,324

Sep 17, 2012 -- 8:29AM, Dragon_Bloodthirsty wrote:


I am skeptical about how the gate lands aren't "strictly worse" than the shock lands.  While I can follow your argument, changing a card's type doesn't carry a lot of weight unless it's something you do a lot.  Being a Goblin matters a lot; being "Arcane" did not matter as much as you seemed to think it did at the time.


The signets did a lot of heavy lifting for the original block; they shouldn't be forgotten.  Telling me that the commons had "more power than intended" is disheartening too.  I'm convinced that one of the reasons Ravnica was popular was because of the powerful common mana-fixers.  The signets (like Boros Signet ) were both common and perfectly matched to the set's theme.


I think the common lands ought to have been farther removed from the rare lands.  It's too easy to look at the two cards side by side and say "Oh, that's what playing rares buys me".  I think it was also great that the commons showed up in tournaments in good decks.




Why are so many people so rebelious about the term "strictly worse"?

Arcane did matter a lot in limited, and that was its purpose.

They didn't like how the signets shaped constructed, whether they were common or rare.  

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 10:14AM #15
Flyheight
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 1,138
I hope the Centaur token looks just like the Call of the Conclave art.

I also second that we can do without the "uncounterable" cycle in Gatecrash.
We're getting Guildgates, Charms, Shocklands, and Guild Leaders as 10 card cycles (plus the strongly hinted 10 guild champions in Sinker), so long as the "unfinished" cycles don't feel like each of the guilds necessarily SHOULD have them then I'm perfectly fine with them remaining incomplete.

Oh and on a related matter I would like to thank R&D for not  bumping the shocklands up to mythic rarity as I personally assumed they would based on power level.  Thank you for leaving them at rare.
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr:

the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play?

I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 12:09PM #16
Tap4Mana
Date Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 606
I wonder about the Gates matter" cards actually making the gate designation matter enough too... which was one of my biggest problems with this article.  Not only did the preview card not have any connection whatsoever to the article itself, but Mark's point about the Gates falls flat without being able to show off something that really shows us that having the Gate subtype has value.

Also, I've always wondered how the duals from Ravnica got the name "karoos".  Does anybody remember why they have such an odd nickname?
~ Current Decks I'm Playing or Building ~
(Click a deck's name to see list)
[] CorpseJunk Menace/Township Counters (Standard)
[] Reanimation/Clerics Theme Deck - Commander: Ghost Dad
[] Devouring Tokens (Planechase, Multiplayer)
[Krark-Clan Ironworks: 2012 Edition (Modern)
[] Azorious Turbo Fog (Modern)


   
   
   
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 12:13PM #17
pygmyallosaurus
Date Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Posts: 46
Karoo is the name of land from Visions that came into play tapped and required you to return an untapped plains to your hand.  Karoo tapped for 1 white and 1 colorless.
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 1:01PM #18
Xactiphyn
Date Joined: Apr 19, 2005
Posts: 78

Sep 17, 2012 -- 9:42AM, milo_bloom wrote:

So I followed this game for many years. I initially got into as Revised was getting hard to find. My buying and playing ebbed and flowed, and over the years the game kept moving in directions that just weren't for me. Now I didn't expect WOTC to change the game just for me, but I wasn't alone in many of my criticisms. Last year, my issues with the game came to a head with the one two punch of Command Tower (a narrowly designed card only playable in one format) and then the dual faced cards that basically broke the game for me.

And I quit.  




A card only usable in one format and only purchable in products that were designed for the same format caused you to quit?  What a sad reaction.  If you don't play commander, don't buy those cards.


Maybe if this guildgate cycle had come sooner, I would have been able to weather the storm of the dual faced cards and would still be a customer, but unfortunately it's too little, too late. I am glad though that all the kitchen table players, the cube groups, the pauper groups, will all now have a good mana fixing solution, I don't think the game is for me anymore.




I agree this cycle was needed, but the Karro cycle was actually more powerful.  There is also a common set of three color lands that come into play tapped.  I was able to build an playable five color EDH deck without rare or expensive lands.  Good, cheap lands exist.  More expensive lands would be better, obviously, but not needed.

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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 3:53PM #19
Qilong
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 2,226

Sep 17, 2012 -- 12:09PM, Tap4Mana wrote:

I wonder about the Gates matter" cards actually making the gate designation matter enough too... which was one of my biggest problems with this article.  Not only did the preview card not have any connection whatsoever to the article itself, but Mark's point about the Gates falls flat without being able to show off something that really shows us that having the Gate subtype has value.

Also, I've always wondered how the duals from Ravnica got the name "karoos".  Does anybody remember why they have such an odd nickname?




Karoo

Named for the desert like plateau of far-south Africa, "the Karoo", covered in woody scrub and surrounded by a rainshadow of the southern mountain ranges. Here's a pretty picture, from wiki:



"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."

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"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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10 months ago  ::  Sep 17, 2012 - 4:15PM #20
Tap4Mana
Date Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 606
Thanks for the info guys!

~ Current Decks I'm Playing or Building ~
(Click a deck's name to see list)
[] CorpseJunk Menace/Township Counters (Standard)
[] Reanimation/Clerics Theme Deck - Commander: Ghost Dad
[] Devouring Tokens (Planechase, Multiplayer)
[Krark-Clan Ironworks: 2012 Edition (Modern)
[] Azorious Turbo Fog (Modern)


   
   
   
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