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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:10AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2007
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I have Instigator Gang  , a 2/2 token, and Raid Bombardment  on the battlefield. When I enter my attack phase and declare attack with my 2/2 token, does Raid Bombardment's ability trigger and deal 1 damage to the defending player?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:13AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Good question! Does the trigger look immediately before the goblin attacks or immediately aftewards?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:14AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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no, it won't trigger the static ability on Gang applies immediately (611.3) from the moment they become attacking creatures this makes the if clause false so they don't trigger it's similar to Honor of the Pure  and Mentor of the Meek  and putting a white 2/2 token on the field static abilities generating continuous effects apply before triggers are checked
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:15AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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no, it won't trigger
Can you back that up?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:26AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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Can you back that up?
yes
611.3. A continuous effect may be generated by the static ability of an object.
611.3a A continuous effect generated by a static ability isn’t “locked in”; it applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.
611.3b The effect applies at all times that the permanent generating it is on the battlefield or the object generating it is in the appropriate zone.
611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:28AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2007
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Thanks for the quick response!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:31AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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huh? How does that answer? A the moment of the trigger, it's both 2/3 and 3/3, <-- time -->
3/3 +-------
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2/3 --------+
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Attacks
so which one does the trigger look at? Or in other words, static abilities generating continuous effects apply before triggers are checked
Can you back this up? The rules you quoted don't mention "before" or "triggers" at all. [Upd: Oh but it does. I'm blind!]
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:34AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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static abilities generating continuous effects apply before triggers are checked
Can you back this up?
read 611.3c it's a parallel situation
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:34AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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I'm blind X_X, thanks!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 14, 2012 - 11:35AM
#10
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Here's another rule pointing to 2goth4U's answer: 603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to "look back in time" to determine if these abilities trigger.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability "Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life." Someone plays a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner's graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
According to the bolded point, we check immediately after the declaration of attackers to see if the event "a creature you control with power 2 or less attacks" has been met. And in this case, no. A creature you control attacked, but it has power 3 at this time, not power 2.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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