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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 6:26PM
#1
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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 9:16PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2011
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It's hilarious to me how many of the previewed cards so far, especially this uncounterable cycle, have the subtext '@&%$ you Snapcaster'
Other than that, the creature looks really strong. I'll admit I'm a bit worried about board stalls but given all of the other amazing tools we've seen so far RtR is looking to be amazing. Here's to getting our first truly good Standard environment in years!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 9:19PM
#3
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In the other direction, people want immediate, visceral reactions to their cards. When cards aren't making you feel, we've failed. When you never feel invincible behind your freshly-played Baneslayer Angel, when you're never desperately terrified of that Bonfire of the Damned lurking on top of your opponent's deck, when deck building is all math, when games are all chess, when Magic is all head and no heart, we've failed. So we take risks. Calculated risks where the dream is bigger than the math, where the passion outweighs the play.
Read: "We only consider ourselves successful if you, our customer base, allow us to willfully manipulate you."
Can there be a more compelling case that the red philosophy is not worth ascribing to?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 9:21PM
#4
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i can understand where the uncounter part is coming from, but even if it was vanilla isnt 4/4 for 3 really powerful?
Almost every other 4/4 for 3 requires you to sacrifice it at the end of turn.... or has other draw backs....
This is a 4/4 for 3 with not only without drawbacks, but protection of sorts....
Not really meta warping, but it seems like creatures are racing back to Urza power level....
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 9:33PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2011
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The power level in this set seems almost bipolar so far - the Hellsteed 5/4 seems very reasonable; I wouldn't be surprised to see a legendary version for 1 less mana in a Kamigawa redux.
...and then there's this guy. Along with the dryad soldier that ALSO flips the bird at Snapcaster. Heck, even the ORLY Owl is pretty crazy for its mana cost, even if its impact isn't very powerful. Lolwut?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 9:35PM
#6
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This is an extreme Spike card. It is a bit disturbing that you all are so focused on these very narrow applications of cards aimed strickly at people that play Magic against opponents, and not with friends. This card is pointless enough to the 'fun crowd' to not matter, but man, you guys make those of us that want to play a game with people for fun work really, really hard to rewrite the rules to make that happen. I literally couldn't relate to anything you wrote here, and yet you'll rubber stamp things that make my life a living hell with no idea why that would be.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 11:13PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2011
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I'd be almost amused by the 'we make power cards for the feeling' part, if it wasn't so depressing. Having a card you can feel good about is important, but that should not be reason to print these kind of powerlevels. Power cards like this might be fun to play for some, but they are not fun to face from the other side of the table. Printing them does not make the game exciting, it makes the entire game irrelevant. Whatever you do, you know card X will smash up your game if it is drawn. The only thing that matters is wether your opponent draws it, and if (when) he does you lose.
Having a good card to feel confident behind is okay, but not when you are forced to play that card only to stand a chance of survival. At that point deckbuilding does revert to being all math: All you need to do is play card X and counter card Y, and the rest of the format is irrelevant to you. It almost 'reduces' games to chess, but with a small twist: Instead of a pure skill-based game with a balanced board, now there is a random guy standing to side with a hammer that randomly hits players, knocking them out instantly. Is there any satisfaction in losing on the board, but then winning just because hammerman knocked your opponent out for you?
Printing trump cards to stop certain strategies could be useful, if only you'd stop using raw power as the main method to counter something. Having tools to fight the Great Evil is important, but not when those tools are simply more powerful than the Great Evil, as they just become the Great Evil themselves. How is this card supposed to help against aggro, when aggro decks will be more than happy to run 4 themselves?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 11:15PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 14, 2006
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This is an extreme Spike card. It is a bit disturbing that you all are so focused on these very narrow applications of cards aimed strickly at people that play Magic against opponents, and not with friends. This card is pointless enough to the 'fun crowd' to not matter, but man, you guys make those of us that want to play a game with people for fun work really, really hard to rewrite the rules to make that happen. I literally couldn't relate to anything you wrote here, and yet you'll rubber stamp things that make my life a living hell with no idea why that would be.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. This is a spike card, yes. But every set has cards for timmy/johnny/spike so it shouldn't be a big deal. This card isn't going to ruin your casual games, because like you said, it's pointless enough. What exactly about this article makes you think that playing MtG for fun is somehow harder to do now than before? Are you saying that Magic nowadays is only aimed at tournament players, based on WotC strategy and cards being published, when in fact the opposite is true (unfun things like discard, ld, and non-interactive combos are being hosed, there are casual product like Duel Decks being released regularly, and the focus in magic has been shifted from non-creature cards to creature cards).
About the card itself: Its converted mana cost is more than two so it's not for the hyper-aggro decks, and it's impact is not big enough to fit in control decks. Like Mr. Moreno said, the card is effective against both of these strategies, so it's a perfect fit for midrange decks. Midrange has usually been the weakest deck archetype, and this cards gives a necessary power level boost for such decks. And a 3 mana 4/4 isn't overpowered by far. If you can have a four mana 3/4 flash flier with a good ability, a three mana ground dude can't be only a 3/3.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 11:21PM
#9
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As cool as this set seems, I'm really not a fan of the "cannot be countered"-suite. I think it's rather pointless to remove one of the more fun and challenging interactions in the game. Being able to play correctly around a counterspell is one of the big things that keeps this game interesting.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 06, 2012 - 11:23PM
#10
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In the other direction, people want immediate, visceral reactions to their cards. When cards aren't making you feel, we've failed. When you never feel invincible behind your freshly-played Baneslayer Angel, when you're never desperately terrified of that Bonfire of the Damned lurking on top of your opponent's deck, when deck building is all math, when games are all chess, when Magic is all head and no heart, we've failed. So we take risks. Calculated risks where the dream is bigger than the math, where the passion outweighs the play.
Read: "We only consider ourselves successful if you, our customer base, allow us to willfully manipulate you."
Can there be a more compelling case that the red philosophy is not worth ascribing to?
You never watch a movie or read a book out of principle too?
Entertainment is all about willful manipulation.
i can understand where the uncounter part is coming from, but even if it was vanilla isnt 4/4 for 3 really powerful?
Almost every other 4/4 for 3 requires you to sacrifice it at the end of turn.... or has other draw backs....
This is a 4/4 for 3 with not only without drawbacks, but protection of sorts....
Not really meta warping, but it seems like creatures are racing back to Urza power level....
Woolly Thoctar 
This is an extreme Spike card. It is a bit disturbing that you all are so focused on these very narrow applications of cards aimed strickly at people that play Magic against opponents, and not with friends. This card is pointless enough to the 'fun crowd' to not matter, but man, you guys make those of us that want to play a game with people for fun work really, really hard to rewrite the rules to make that happen. I literally couldn't relate to anything you wrote here, and yet you'll rubber stamp things that make my life a living hell with no idea why that would be.
They do have an idea, but it's impossible to please all. Or rather, to offend no one. As MaRo always says, it's better to make something that is beloved by some and hated by others, than something that is hated by no one and loved by no one.
As cool as this set seems, I'm really not a fan of the "cannot be countered"-suite. I think it's rather pointless to remove one of the more fun and challenging interactions in the game. Being able to play correctly around a counterspell is one of the big things that keeps this game interesting.
Problem is, for the vast majority of players, it's one of the least fun interactions in the game. So it has to be downplayed.
Also, isn't the game better if everything has answers? Now there are some answers for counterspells.
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