Player has creatures in graveyard including sutured ghoul . Has grimoire of the dead out, it ticks down and is sacrificed... all of the creatures in all graveyards come into play under that players control, at the same time he says he exiled all of the creatures that were originally in his graveyard except for sutured ghoul thus he just added all of those numbers to sutured ghoul.
Since grimoire says put all creautures from graveyard onto battlefield yet sutured ghoul says remove creature cards in your graveyard from the game to add to his tough/power..... can this combo actually be done?
I am the one questioning this. He did this and I said are you sure that works since grim says they are on the battlefield and sutured requires them to be in the graveyard?
Sutured Ghoul cannot exile any creature cards, since they are already gone from the graveyard by the time he enters the battlefield (because they enter at the same time as he is)
if we assume for a moment that he can exile the cards, Sutured Ghoul will be X/X and the only creature entering the battlefield the creature cards cannot be both exiled with the Ghoul and enter the battlefield
All creatures are entering the battlefield from the graveyard at the same time, which means that there are no creatures in the graveyard for Sutured Ghoul to exile. The Ghoul will enter the battlefield as a 0/0, then be sent to the graveyard once state-bassed affects are checked.
No. Grimoire's ability resolves, putting all the other creatures in the graveyard into play at the same time. Once it has finished resolving Sutured Ghoul is now in play and checks for cards to be exiled. There aren't any, so it dies and goes to the graveyard.
No. Grimoire's ability resolves, putting all the other creatures in the graveyard into play at the same time. Once it has finished resolving Sutured Ghoul is now in play and checks for cards to be exiled. There aren't any, so it dies and goes to the graveyard.
technically incorrect, but the correct result the Ghoul checks for the cards to exile while in "limbo" between the graveyard and the battlefield, meaning all the creatures have left the graveyard but none have entered the battlefield yet (and Grimoire is still in the middle of resolving)
Um, sorry to say it, but all of those previous answers are incorrect. You can exile the other cards with Sutured Ghoul if you really want to. If you do, they will not enter the battlefield. The only card that can't be exiled from that player's graveyard for the Ghoul is the Ghoul itself.
That's from these two rules:
400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object's controller -- or its owner if it has no controller -- chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous "destroy" effects.) Then the event moves the object.
[...]
614.13a When applying an effect that modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield, you can't make a choice that would cause that permanent to go to a different zone and not enter the battlefield. Example: Sutured Ghoul says, in part, "As Sutured Ghoul enters the battlefield, exile any number of creature cards from your graveyard." If Sutured Ghoul enters the battlefield from your graveyard, you can't choose to exile Sutured Ghoul itself.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real. --Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
614.1c Effects that read "[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ," "As [this permanent] enters the battlefield . . . ," or "[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . " are replacement effects.
614.4. Replacement effects must exist before the appropriate event occurs -- they can't "go back in time" and change something that's already happened. Spells or abilities that generate these effects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolve before that event would occur. Example: A player can activate an ability to regenerate a creature in response to a spell that would destroy it. Once the spell resolves, though, it's too late to regenerate the creature.
Any decisions for Sutured Ghoul's replacement effect are made before it enters the battlefield, i.e., while it and all those other creature cards are still in the graveyard. Since they are still in the graveyard, they are eligible for exile. (Note that this exiling would happen instead of putting them onto the battlefield, i.e., cards on the battlefield are not exiled cards and are not counted for Sutured Ghoul's "... exiled cards ...." characteristic-defining ability. Even using something like Riftsweeper after the fact would take cards out of that total.)
Rules that forbid exiling Sutured Ghoul itself for this purpose:
614.13a When applying an effect that modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield, you can't make a choice that would cause that permanent to go to a different zone and not enter the battlefield. Example: Sutured Ghoul says, in part, "As Sutured Ghoul enters the battlefield, exile any number of creature cards from your graveyard." If Sutured Ghoul enters the battlefield from your graveyard, you can't choose to exile Sutured Ghoul itself.
Rules that forbid exiling other cards for this purpose:
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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