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Switch to Forum Live View 9/3/2012 MM: "Return on Investment, Part 1"
9 months ago  ::  Aug 30, 2012 - 3:56PM #1
WotC_Monty
Date Joined: Nov 5, 2003
Posts: 1,652
This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 02, 2012 - 10:02PM #2
Dragon_Nut
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 2,135
That is most certainly a Commander. I approve.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 02, 2012 - 10:33PM #3
Dux_is_me
Date Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 436

Rule #1) Each set had to have each color represented twice.

Rule #2) Each set had to have some ally and some enemy guild combinations.

Rule #3) Any groups of four or three guilds that appeared together in Ravnica block could not all appear together again.

Rule #5) Start with two Dissension guilds.

Once all these rules were thrown into a blender, there ended up being only two options.



These four rules are enough to determine what those two options were.

1. By rule #5, there must be two, and only two, Dissension guilds. Suppose those guilds were the Azorius and Simic. That makes two blue guilds. By rule #1, the remaining three guilds need to be two red, two black, one green and one white guild. However, whichever guilds you pick for green and white, you end up having to pick Rakdos to complete red and black, meaning all three Dissension guilds would appear in Return to Ravnica, which breaks rule #5.

2. That leaves only two combinations of Dissension guilds: Azorius/Rakdos, and Simic/Rakdos. In either of these combinations, there are only two possibilities for the other blue guild: Izzet and Dimir. Let's show that Dimir can't be used in either. Suppose you have Azorius/Dimir/Rakdos. There are two green, one white and one red guild remaining, which leaves only one option: Gruul/Selesnya. This means all five ally-colored guilds appear in Return to Ravnica, breaking rule #2.

3. Suppose instead it's Simic/Dimir/Rakdos. This leaves two white, one red and one green guild, which once again leaves a single option: Selesnya/Boros. However, this time there are no Guildpact guilds in the set, so all three of the Guildpact guilds would have to appear in Gatecrash, breaking rule #3.

4.  Thus, our two options become Azorius/Izzet/Rakdos and Simic/Izzet/Rakdos. In the first case, the remaining colors are two green, one white and one black, which translates to Selesnya/Golgari. In the other, the remaining colors are two white, one green and one black, meaning our guilds are Selesnya/Orzhov.

Choice #1: Azorius/Golgari/Izzet/Rakdos/Selesnya
Choice #2: Izzet/Orzhov/Rakdos/Selesnya/Simic

Both of these choices conform to all the rules. Particularly, rule #4 doesn't help to decide, since both choices have their share of fast and slow guilds. I guess Mark Rosewater just had to include that one to show that the process wasn't all abstract color decisions; though it's true that rule #2 pretty much guaranteed that there would be a balance between fast and slow, since most of the fast guilds were red, most of the slow guilds were black, and most of the guilds in the middle were white or green.

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 02, 2012 - 10:49PM #4
coien
Date Joined: May 24, 2011
Posts: 145

Sep 2, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Dux_is_me wrote:


Rule #1) Each set had to have each color represented twice.

Rule #2) Each set had to have some ally and some enemy guild combinations.

Rule #3) Any groups of four or three guilds that appeared together in Ravnica block could not all appear together again.

Rule #5) Start with two Dissension guilds.

Once all these rules were thrown into a blender, there ended up being only two options.



These four rules are enough to determine what those two options were.

...

Both of these choices conform to all the rules. Particularly, rule #4 doesn't help to decide, since both choices have their share of fast and slow guilds. I guess Mark Rosewater just had to include that one to show that the process wasn't all abstract color decisions; though it's true that rule #2 pretty much guaranteed that there would be a balance between fast and slow, since most of the fast guilds were red, most of the slow guilds were black, and most of the guilds in the middle were white or green. 




Congratulations on determining the minimum number of rules necessary to solve a logic puzzle, but it's quite possible that R&D didn't know that rule #4 was superfluous when they set out to decide the criteria for their choice. Smile I think you're assuming way too much deviousness on the part of MaRo.

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9 months ago  ::  Sep 02, 2012 - 11:41PM #5
Dux_is_me
Date Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 436
Pretty much. We wouldn't be Izzet if we didn't believe ourselves to be smarter than everyone else. Tongue Out But you're right, the fact that the Limited environment needs to be balanced is never a trivial matter. It better be, since Prereleases are pretty much the only Magic I ever play, and I always do terribly whenever multicolored cards are involved.
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 03, 2012 - 12:49AM #6
Zoidberg
Date Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 2,359
Isperia! Wow!

And the first can tutor for the new one! :D

Much more impressive than the new Niv!
Rules question? Have you read the Basic rulebook already? No? Why not take some time to do that?

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Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One .
   
   
   
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 03, 2012 - 10:14AM #7
Senyuno
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 427
I like it. I like the idea that 6-drops don't immediately net you advantage-- you have to wait and give your opponent at least a chance to figure something out. I think once you reach 7-drop spot you should be allowed free advantage, like SoUthuun .
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 03, 2012 - 11:16AM #8
B-rawl
Date Joined: Jun 11, 2012
Posts: 11
Did anyone else interpret the last sentence of the article as a possible fo rsh ad ow ? "Until then, may you enjoy revisiting a beloved land."
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 03, 2012 - 11:22AM #9
TheShadow344
Date Joined: Aug 14, 2012
Posts: 83

Sep 3, 2012 -- 11:16AM, B-rawl wrote:

Did anyone else interpret the last sentence of the article as a possible fo rsh ad ow ? "Until then, may you enjoy revisiting a beloved land."




Probably just referring to being back in Ravnica.  Besides, the shocklands have already been spoiled - check out the Card Image Gallery.

Please autocard: [c]Mulldrifter[/c] = Mulldrifter        .
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9 months ago  ::  Sep 03, 2012 - 11:28AM #10
B-rawl
Date Joined: Jun 11, 2012
Posts: 11

Sep 3, 2012 -- 11:22AM, TheShadow344 wrote:

Probably just referring to being back in Ravnica.  Besides, the shocklands have already been spoiled - check out the Card Image Gallery.



I just noticed that a few minutes after I made that post.

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