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9 months ago ::
Aug 31, 2012 - 11:45AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2010
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It's hard to say what the original intent of the card was. If I had to guess, I'd say the designer didn't care or didn't think about interactions pertaining to whether the card is revealed.
However, the original text gives us a small clue. The card specifies that you can look at a randomly determined card before decided whether to apply this effect. That tells me that the card wants you to decide what you're discarding before you actually do it.
So, Wrench Mind  hits me:
1) Choose whether I'm discarding two or discarding an artifact.
2) Do the discard.
3) Apply Library's effect? Oh wait, maybe I can't!
In that light, I can understand why a reveal could be desirable. But I believe that Wizards tries to avoid functional changes at any reasonable cost.
They do but if there is something funky they ask the designer of the card to restore intent along as it don't break the game. Someone now has to ask Richard Garfield.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 12:48PM
#32
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Date Joined:
May 16, 2002
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I'm having trouble recalling a situation where a card's original designer was asked about the card's intent. There have been rare occasions where the Oracle team has asked for feedback about specific cards were adjudicated back in the day. ( Musician  comes to mind.) Is there a format where the interaction between Wrench Mind and Library of Leng  is relevant?
Del Laugel
Senior editor, Magic TCG
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9 months ago ::
Sep 05, 2012 - 2:23PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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Legacy, Vintage and Commander are the only formats where both are legal I don't think the library sees play in Legacy/Vintage, and while I run it in some of my Commander decks discard is not common in that format, at least not targetted like Wrench Mind so I guess it's not a pressing issue because this situation will not come up often, but it's still unintuitive when it does
proud member of the 2011 community team
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9 months ago ::
Sep 20, 2012 - 8:11AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2004
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yes, I misread your post and edited in the mean time
even with Telepathy  and/or Future Sight  you cannot discard a single artifact card to the library, because officially the card you discard is not known, even if every player can see it
Telepathy: "Your opponents play with their hands revealed."
I would expect to be able to discard a single revealed artifact card to the library because the card is revealed.
The cases where I'd expect to be unable to discard a single artifact card to the library despite everyone knowing what it is are:
- I have two (different) artifacts in my hand, both of which were publicly revealed at some point but are no longer. In other words, you can deduce that I'm discarding an artifact purely from public knowledge, but not directly from observing the current public gamestate.
- Each player is currently affected by an effect that allows them to see the card I'm discarding individually, but there is no such general effect in effect. In other words, everyone knows what I'm discarding as part of their private knowledge, but the nature of my discard is not public information.
The latter case falls under "officially the card you discard is not known, even if every player can see it".
M:tG Rules Advisor
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8 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 7:08PM
#35
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The ruling for Library of Leng that says that the discarded card is kept hidden contradicts rule 400.6. Not revealing the card directly breaks that rule. First all players look at the card, then any appropriate replacement effects are applied. 400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 8:45PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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The ruling for Library of Leng that says that the discarded card is kept hidden contradicts rule 400.6. Not revealing the card directly breaks that rule. First all players look at the card, then any appropriate replacement effects are applied. 400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event.
That rule seems to break Morph, so I think it must not really do what it says.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 4:50AM
#37
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That rule seems to break Morph, so I think it must not really do what it says.
It says to look at the card, but doesn't specifically say to look at the face. Presumably, if it will be face down in the new zone, you look at its face down characteristics to determine which replacement effects to apply.
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