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Aug 27, 2012 -- 1:03PM, Xactiphyn wrote:

Clearly, Avacyn Restored should have had a legendary, single-sided werewolf.  That would have solved multiple problems with a single card.  "The Last Werewolf", stuck in form, would have been quite flaverfull, as well.

That's an awesome idea. They should release a limited expansion booster pack (a la the Jedi Pack of Star Wars CCG) that catches up on a few mistakes, including the lack of a legendary werewolf and a human captain, among other things.

Aug 27, 2012 -- 9:59AM, AlexaM wrote:

Contrast this with Scars block, where there was a progression that made sense (and whose end was a little too obvious, but even though I knew just from the "faction percentage" shift who would win it was still exciting.) You got to see things change. With AVR it was a trend and a dramatic reversal -- with nothing to make the reversal feel epic. Even though the biggest chase card is a miracle, for example, it's not "Holy Judgment Flames," it's "Bonfire of the Damned" -- still associated with the bad guys. The bad guys are still EPIC COOL... and the good guys are... a bunch of angels (okay, okay, Restoration is pretty amazing. But without the flavor of a good story to tell us who she's restorating and why it matters, she doesn't resonate with me.

It's supposed to be a bonfire burning the damned; hence, Bonfire of the Damned. Unfortunately, the art and name still make it look more like an "evil" spell. 

Aug 27, 2012 -- 10:50AM, Belzebozo wrote:

I don't believe that this block was awful: from a flavor perspective, it really did do quite a few things very, very well. Especially when it came to art and flavor text. Beyond that, I will say that it gave me less to be interested in and I think that it really didn't execute the kinds of tropes it was trying to in a Magic way. Prime example: why are blue zombies feeding on creatures? I know why black zombies would but shouldn't the blue ones have removed instants/sorceries from your graveyard?  

The Blue zombies remove creature cards from your graveyard because they are literally dead bodies stitched together; just like in Frankenstein, you have to rob a few graves to make your monster. 

Aug 26, 2012 -- 9:25PM, crimson_sunrise wrote:

we've created product after product that has sent a clear message that Magic is not just about winning in tournaments

You've promoted play settings outside the tournament events, but you can still do more to promote a casual attitude in general. The problem isn't just that people see Magic as being about winning in tournaments: they see it as being solely about winning, period. There are Commander and Planechase netdecks. There are people who go into forums marked "casual" and get told to switch their favorite cards for powerful things they've never even heard of and that don't fit their Ouphe theme deck, or what have you. The culture needs to change, and it can start with you.

I am curious as to what you would suggest?  Its a game, where you are trying to win.  Thus if you have competitive people around they are going to push to win.  I am a competitive person and its just in my nature.  I want to win and be good/great at everything I do.  The only way to keep me from being competitive is for me to check and control myself before I even start playing.  They are supplying a game and thus at that point nothing they can do to change the psychy of competitive people.  They can create product for casual but will also so to all, but there really isn't anything they can do to stop net-decking or anything else you are worried about.


Onto comments seeing from other people.

The price barrier to standard is mostly in what you want it to be.  You do not have to run all the high priced cards to play and win.  Why not go for some other build that is cheaper?  Look at the meta and build a deck that combats it well.

As far as price goes I also find it interesting that people complain about price because of mythics then complain about delver as well.  Which way do you want it, do you want your deck you can build for 5 dollars to do well or do you want your mythics to do well?  The reason you see so much delver is that its a cheap deck that people can play and still do really well.  If the market is saturated with it enough then those decks will do better just by odds.

I do agree that secondary prices should be lower, but there should also be cool powerful cards.  Just the ones that are expensive need to be reprinted to get the prices down.  People complained about the Titan cycle being reprinted but it helped to get the supply way up to make sure the price will be down to where people can get them.

They have to sell the product so there is going to be chase cards in each set.  Its just going to allow for the product to be sold.  Complaining is not going to change that.  Then when they do something like reprint those powerful cards you complain about being too expensive you then complain that they are back and you have to deal with them again.  So you complain, they do what they can to help out while being able to stay in business, then you complain about the fix.  Then they print powerful commons (delver) and Rares (snap caster, cavern, restoration angel, thrag tusk, etc) so its easier to find, but you complain about that.  So the only answer is to do a low powered block which they have tried before and people really hated.

Some of the issues people have are things that you can control.  Support reprints of the expensive cards.  I know everyone supports reprints of the shock lands, but for some reason they don't support reprints of the Titans or Baneslayer Angel.  Maybe its a timing issue?  You want it to be 5 years before something comes back?  I even remember something about they were about to reprint JTMS but everyone was complaining about it (due to the price) so they just banned it and pulled it.  If they had printed JTMS 3 times now (assuming it would of taken the place of Jace 3.0) the price would be a lot lower because the supply would be a lot higher.

Also if you have a problem with the price of a deck, either trade what you have for the expensive cards, or build or copy a cheaper deck.  Even back in the Caw Blade pre-ban I was able to beat people playing it when I was running a different deck.  So I know for sure you can beat the expensive deck with a cheaper deck.  Just have to know what to play and improve yourself as a player.

Aug 27, 2012 -- 4:14PM, Leitmotiv wrote:

Aug 27, 2012 -- 3:31PM, PanteraCanes wrote:

Aug 26, 2012 -- 9:25PM, crimson_sunrise wrote:

we've created product after product that has sent a clear message that Magic is not just about winning in tournaments

Its a game, where you are trying to win.

Yes, it's a game. And the core of any game is the fun factor. That usually involves some sort of social interaction, unless you prefer masturbation. Playing with someone who is in it just to win, is a lot like watching someone masterbate. Boring and a little embarassing to all parties.

We're talking about different game settings. One is serious, professional play. The other more casual, open, and dare I say fun. Both have their benefits.

For Avacyn Restored, it seems to me that the motif is that AVR is geared more toward professional play (which explains the high sales), but it did little to keep the fun.

Yeah... casual play isn't all that much fun for a huge variety of reasons. That is, of course, opinion, but it destroys your entire argument. Voila.