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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 6:21PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2012
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@SadisticMystic (not gonna quote your rather impressive wall of text for the sake of making things readable for everyone else):
Agreed. They've made it quite clear they're aiming for the lower end of the strategic spectrum. The issue is, those players never were playing in tournaments and never will. They aren't interested in competition! They just want to have fun. The biggest organized event you're gonna get your average Timmy to go to is a Prerelease. The only people who go to tournaments are the Spikes who love winning and the Johnnies who like brewing. Timmies stick to the kitchen table, where they can play casual games with one another where every card is legal. Has it occurred to WotC that the ultimate un-fun for Timmies is having the rules of the game dictate that you can't play some cards? Standard is exactly the opposite of what they want. It means they can't play that super awesome dragon they opened in a Planar Chaos pack, and instead have to grab something like Thundermaw Hellkite, which is, while very strong, not anywhere near as viscerally appealing as something like Intet, the Dreamer (you mean I can play a card for FREE?). They're trying to sell Standard to the group of people who will never buy, and in the process alienating huge swaths of their fanbase.
This is also bad for the long-term growth of the game. There are plenty of players who start out as Timmies, but as they get more in-tune with the game, they start turning into Johnnies and Spikes. They want the next stage of the game beyond the Topdeck Timmy, which is hardcore brewing and careful strategy. By going for this luck-based format, Wizards is destroying that evolution and limiting player retention. Magic becomes something that players grow out of.
The solution to this is pretty simple. Keep printing stuff like Commander, because it REALLY appeals to Timmies. Print a few splashy mythics in each block, things like the original Alara cycle. That was a really well-designed cycle, because it gave casual players a set of big cool cards and a cycle of smaller creatures that allowed them to both tutor for those cards and cheat them out. If I'd found that eight years ago, I would have gone absolutely wild over it. Something like Falkenrath Aristocrat? They're not going to spare that a second glance. Same with Lotus Cobra. Same with Bonfire. Same with Huntmaster. Timmies won't buy tournament-viable mythics, because the price is so high and because tournament-viable cards simply aren't as splashy. As for tournament-level cards, those need to be oriented towards complex strategy and decisionmaking. That way you give experienced players a game to grow into.
Of course, this will never happen. WotC seems determined to go down in flames. In a Bonfire of the Damned, perhaps.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 10:25PM
#32
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2011
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They're trying to sell Standard to the group of people who will never buy, and in the process alienating huge swaths of their fanbase.
...
Of course, this will never happen. WotC seems determined to go down in flames. In a Bonfire of the Damned, perhaps.
Theories like this really need to account for the fact that Magic is selling better now than at pretty much any time in history, unless they want to be dismissed as lone rants.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 11:08PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2004
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 Hello, Lawsuit.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)
"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 11:14PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2010
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None of those examples is actually combo: UG Madness is a tempo deck, Goblin Bidding is an aggro deck and UW Reveillark is a control deck. They only have little combo elements on them
(note: I don't mean instant-win combo, but what Zac called combo here)
Uhg! I thought I was clear: I'm using Zac's definiton of combo, which seems to be "what if we made a deck that took advantage of this 'rules text' thing?"
Personally, I think instant-win combo decks (the traditional definition) are fun only in theory, never in actual play. Sure I enjoy going off with an eggs deck, but I don't need a miserable opponent to do that.
I agree that an archetype system made of equal parts aggro, control, and instant-win combo has too much instant-winning in it, but surely there's a better archetype system than "Offensive Creature Deck (if it wins, does so quickly), Offensive Creature Deck (if wins, does so after a short pause), Mana Searching Deck that Becomes an Offensive Creature Deck Once it Has 6 Mana, Defensive Controlling Deck That Becomes An Offensive Creature Deck Once It Has 6 Mana, Offensive Creature Deck (with controlling elements), and Everything Else" with equal weight in each category.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 1:43AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2011
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Dear Zac: How about you focus less on whatever idea you have of how the rock/paper/scissors aspects should work out, and more on the "we want a greater overall number of Constructed-viable cards, which requires us to expand the space of mana-costs that would ordinarily be considered playable" aspects? Please refer to Ravnica/Time Spiral formats. You know, BEFORE you ramped up the power level with Mythic Rares. Doing that would more or less solve the problem itself, given that you already make a wide variety of cards for a wide variety of strategies. Some formats might end up being more aggro, others more control, others another way...but if the power level is balanced, and there's consistent variety, worrying about which strategy is going to match up well against another is no longer relevant: the format itself can determine the matchups. Really, it would be okay to have formats again in which Centaur Courser  is a playable constructed card. You can still make splashy effects like the Titans had, just don't give them uncreatively identical nigh-unkillable 6/6 bodies and/nor the bargain price of 6 mana. You can still make hyper efficient cards like Snapcaster Mage, just cost them appropriately (at 3) or make them chump blockers (1/1, like our buddy Sakura-Tribe Elder  ). You can even still make undercosted, game-alteringly powerful effects, just go for narrow cards like Tempered Steel...as long as you make sure that it's not so much so that everyone is playing that build-around deck (like in Scars block). The formats now are, admittedly, diverse, BUT: a lot of that has to do with aggressive bannings in older formats, and a lot of it has to do with there being enough super-powerful cards and/or strategies that continue to be printed in newer formats. While that's fine if you want lots of decks with a dozen mythics and a dozen $5-20 lands, it's not so fine if you truly want to see "a greater overall number of Constructed-viable cards".
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 3:48AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
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@SadisticMystic (not gonna quote your rather impressive wall of text for the sake of making things readable for everyone else):
Agreed. They've made it quite clear they're aiming for the lower end of the strategic spectrum. The issue is, those players never were playing in tournaments and never will. They aren't interested in competition! They just want to have fun. The biggest organized event you're gonna get your average Timmy to go to is a Prerelease. The only people who go to tournaments are the Spikes who love winning and the Johnnies who like brewing. Timmies stick to the kitchen table, where they can play casual games with one another where every card is legal. Has it occurred to WotC that the ultimate un-fun for Timmies is having the rules of the game dictate that you can't play some cards? Standard is exactly the opposite of what they want. It means they can't play that super awesome dragon they opened in a Planar Chaos pack, and instead have to grab something like Thundermaw Hellkite, which is, while very strong, not anywhere near as viscerally appealing as something like Intet, the Dreamer (you mean I can play a card for FREE?). They're trying to sell Standard to the group of people who will never buy, and in the process alienating huge swaths of their fanbase.
This is also bad for the long-term growth of the game. There are plenty of players who start out as Timmies, but as they get more in-tune with the game, they start turning into Johnnies and Spikes. They want the next stage of the game beyond the Topdeck Timmy, which is hardcore brewing and careful strategy. By going for this luck-based format, Wizards is destroying that evolution and limiting player retention. Magic becomes something that players grow out of.
The solution to this is pretty simple. Keep printing stuff like Commander, because it REALLY appeals to Timmies. Print a few splashy mythics in each block, things like the original Alara cycle. That was a really well-designed cycle, because it gave casual players a set of big cool cards and a cycle of smaller creatures that allowed them to both tutor for those cards and cheat them out. If I'd found that eight years ago, I would have gone absolutely wild over it. Something like Falkenrath Aristocrat? They're not going to spare that a second glance. Same with Lotus Cobra. Same with Bonfire. Same with Huntmaster. Timmies won't buy tournament-viable mythics, because the price is so high and because tournament-viable cards simply aren't as splashy. As for tournament-level cards, those need to be oriented towards complex strategy and decisionmaking. That way you give experienced players a game to grow into.
Of course, this will never happen. WotC seems determined to go down in flames. In a Bonfire of the Damned, perhaps.
This is a good post and I agree with most of it.
Quotes
Show
Okay, here is the clincher. I've been waiting to say this.
The "cam girl" this was inspired by was just a girl from a social networking website, Stickam. Her name was TinyTerror and she was just a regular girl who was on her webcam, totally unrelated to any type of adult content.
I hope you all feel really smart now. 
This is like someone coming into class with a bloody nose and everyone's like "Jeez what happened to you" and they're like "I ran into a wall" and everyone laughs at them for being an idiot but then at the end of the class they say "HAHA JUST KIDDING I PUNCHED MYSELF IN THE FACE!!!!!! TALK ABOUT OWNED HAHAHAHAHA"
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.
Sorin walked into the chamber where his newly wed bride, Vampy, awaited. A beam of moonlight illuminated his brilliant silver hair as he strode with confidence towards the bed. His shirtless body showcased his powerful abdominal muscles and he was wearing jeans with holes in the knees.
I wish more girls play magic cards...
Have you considered assassinating Kevin?
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 6:07AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2006
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I can't make an argument that would be better than anyone else here, so I say this:
F#+ you Zac, and anyone else at wotc who thinks som-inn standard has been good at any point. You guys have bombed hard lately, and my nerdrage is reaching its limit.
(at)MrEnglish22
"still a better Commander card than Emmara Tandris"
-On the topic of Squire
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 6:58AM
#38
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I hope Wizards actually reads our responses here and takes it seriously. There is no truly viable combo or control in the current meta. Don't try to make specific examples as arguments either. If what Zac said in this article reflects Wizards' true feelings toward Standard, then the format is really doomed. Player's want interaction in the meta game to mean that HOW I play my cards is more important than WHAT cards I have that are better than yours. I don't want to base my wins/losses on rather or not I draw my Bonfires  first, I want my wins to occur because I was patient at the right time, aggressive at the right time, or went off at the correct moment. See what I did there? 1. Patient (Control) 2. Aggresive (Aggro) 3. Went Off (Combo) This is why I play Naya Pod, because it gives me the best chances to truly interact with my opponent. With a pod, I can typically find my answer to whatever my opponent is doing. But more and more, I find myself winning simply because I hit Bonfire  . I like winning, but not just because I drew the right card at the right time; I like winning because I made the right choices and I built the deck in a manner that increases my chances of having those options. Essentially I think that's what should go into building a deck. In Control, you want to have options available to react to your opponent. In Aggro, you want your curb to give you your best options early and quickly. In Combo, you want your deck to give you the quickest and safest opportunity to "go off." I've only been playing Magic since 2006 but this article is really disappointing.
Residual energetic and psychic emenations from the spark of planewalkers going in and out of the blind eternities like it was a windmill eventually coalesced into beings named eldrazi who by their very nature could not consume mundane sources of nourishment to sustain their existence.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 11:31AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2009
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Rather than jump into the deep end of all the semantic argueing and WOTC bashing I am going to try and address a new point.
There is always a lot of talk in articles from Wizards about the Future League. There is enough time having passed since this was first discussed that some of the Standard formats on which decisions were made have passed into antiquity. I would really like to see some of the decks and metagame discussion that evolved during that time. I mean, what were the decks that the FL built for the Alara-Zendikar season? How did they match-up against each other and how did that influence what cards saw print?
I ask this because I am a fan of Birthing Pod, which I have heard was quite the boogieman in the FL, so much so that they had to seed so much hate all through it's standard time so as to almost be unplayable until just recently. I would really like to see how those determinations were made.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 11, 2012 - 1:48PM
#40
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2011
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I was hoping I would see more people suggest this in this thread, but I would love to see an article discussing development's views on the top decks in Standard in the past few years, where they fall, and what that suggests about how balanced the environments were. Basically I guess trying to answer the objections of the people in this thread, or at least saying whether R&D sees them as valid.
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