Community

However, the rules state that if the riules say you cannot do something, but a card says you can, then you can. So, despite it being non-playable because it is a non-payable cost, you may play it because the card says you may.

The question is, is playing it without paying its cost an alternative cost? If so, it is non-payable, and you do not pay tax.

If, however, it is NOT an alternative cost, but a static effect, then, since tax is part of the cost, you do not pay it. In either case, you do not pay the tax.

At least according to the rules of logic. I realize this is Magic, so if rulings are otherwise, then the rules should be fixed to clarify the correct play model. I just do not see any rulings or any rules that indicate that one should "play without paying cost" but still have to pay the tax. It does not fit any of what the rules cover.

Enigma256 has this one pretty thoroughly covered. "Unpayable costs" never come into play here, and I don't know what sidetracked the discussion there. Omniscience alllows you to play cards without paying their mana cost. That means the cost in the top right corner of the card is waived. Additional costs, like paying for the Aura of Silence tax, or discarding a card for Wild Guess , or paying to kick Rite of Replication (if you want to kick it), are not part of the mana cost, so you still have to pay them when you cast the spell that way.

The two spells are functionally very similar. "Pay instead of paying this part of the cost when you cast a spell" is almost indistinguishable from "You don't have to pay this part of the cost when you cast a spell".

Aug 2, 2012 -- 1:19PM, Enigma256 wrote:

as I quoted before, the aura is a "cost increase", it applies to the total cost

omniscience's ability is a static ability

604.5. Some static abilities apply while a spell is on the stack. These are often abilities that refer to countering the spell. Also, abilities that say “As an additional cost to cast . . . ,” “You may pay [cost] rather than pay [this object]’s mana cost,” and “You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost” work while a spell is on the stack.

can we get back to the original issue why there are 2 templates to achieve basically the same effect

Templates are different because Lodestone Golem and its ilk. For Rooftop storms you can cast Gravecrawler for however it is going to cost you in addition.

Where the other you can play it and it bypasses the additional because you are casting it "without" a mana cost

Aug 2, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Enigma256 wrote:

Aug 2, 2012 -- 2:47PM, Darkwolfer2002 wrote:

Templates are different because Lodestone Golem and its ilk. For Rooftop storms you can cast Gravecrawler for however it is going to cost you in addition.

Where the other you can play it and it bypasses the additional because you are casting it "without" a mana cost

we've been over this, this is wrong
the tax applies to both templates

It does however the additional cost of the is figured into the card before it is cast. Then you still play it for free