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Has any thought been given to bringing back "put into a graveyard from the battlefield"? I know what R&D wanted to accomplish with "dies" but I see newer players getting confused more, it seems, by "dies" ... People wondering if Exile counts as dying, sacrifice, does a creature die if it's regenerated... And some of those came up even with the old wording. But... Meh. Wordy as it may have been, I kind of miss it.

I find it much easier to tell a new player "put into a graveyard from the battlefield means exactly what it says" - I don't need to tell them what it doesn't mean. Nobody I've talked to thinks something that triggers when a creature "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" somehow doesn't trigger if that creature is sacrificed or Legend-ruled or whatever.

...On the other hand, when I explain to a new player what "dies" means... I then have to answer their questions - easy task of course - and explain what "dies" doesn't mean. "well does exile mean die?" or "so if I sacrifice Goblin Arsonist does it trigger, since it wasn't destroyed?"

And for those of us who know better, it sounds silly and it's sometimes hard to imagine how these people could actually think these things. But hey I remember learning the game. And I remember coming to the Rules Q&A forum and man... If I could look back at some of the things I asked, I'd slap myself so hard. I just think, even though it takes up more space, "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" is a lot easier to explain to a new player because you don't actually have to explain anything. There was, IMO, less confusion.

Its also weird that undying creature die.

Jul 28, 2012 -- 10:55AM, RadMan323 wrote:

Jul 28, 2012 -- 10:00AM, niheloim wrote:

Its also weird that undying creature die.

Well they do undie afterward

yes they do.

I'm actually on the opposite side of the feeling. I like "dies". I mean seems like common sense to me. A lightning bolt just caused your goblin to explode, I think its dead. Hey sacrifice your goat to summon that demon and by sacrifice I mean kill it! Hey, go away and never come back, I just exiled you but your not dead.

I think the confusion is what people "want" to happen and what is really "suppose" to happen.

Like the whole rediculas thing about Cavern of Souls. I mean really give someone credit. If they name humans and they use Cavern of Souls to cast a human assume you can't counter it. I mean really... really people. Oh but they didn't specify so he could have used colorless... judge judge. Gawd people try to find anything to give them a win and to me it just makes them look like a horrible human being.

So I'll leave you with this, what does it mean to you when someone says, "died"

I think there are distinct drawbacks to ''dies''. It's perfectly clear that something that says to exile a permanent doesn't cause it to die, but those effects that replace dying with exile
somehow feel odd. That is, it's unintuitive that Murder doesn't cause the creature to die when there's a Leyline of the Void .

Also, having different templates for creatures vs non-creatures is annoying, but I understand why they do that.

Despite these issues, I think it is an overall benefit.