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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 8:41AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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it would last until end of turn, regardless of what happens to the Wurm (because it is a triggered ability and not a static ability from the Wurm) compare the Wurm to Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite  where flickering will not do much
proud member of the 2011 community team
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 8:54AM
#12
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Why?
"Creatures your opponents control get -2/-2." would last as long no longer than the permanent is in play.
What's different about "When Massacre Wurm enters the battlefield, creatures your opponents control get -2/-2 until end of turn." that makes the static part of the ability last longer than the lifespan of the object withe ability?
It's surely because the static ability is "part of" a triggered ability rather than "part of" a permanent. What I'm looking for is the rule.
(I tried to support pitiex's answer with rules right after they posted their answer, but I didn't know where to look.)
Perhaps I am over simplifying what you're asking, but the rule I found (admittedly the number may now be outdated) is:
611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by the spell or ability creating it (such as “until end of turn&rdquo . If no duration is stated, it lasts until the end of the game
I really must download the new version of the rules though.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 8:55AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Dec 14, 2008
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My buddy has been running a deck similar to this for a couple of weeks now on MTGO. When the deck gets going it is brutal.
He runs Skinrenders and Undying Evils also. Last night in2HG he had a Closet and a Skinrender on the board. Was able to cast Skinrender. Attacked with other Skinrender and was blocked and killed, he cast Undying Evil on it, briinging it back and then again bouncing it with the closet. Thats nine -1/-1 counters in one turn. It was awesome.
Edit: I know he uses the Wurm and the -2/-2 stays on until EOT no matter what happens to the worm (this is on MTGO so it enforces the rules). And yes he often has the closet out with the Wurm and that takes it to -4/-4 for the turn if the opponent can't handle it.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 8:57AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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That was answered in #2, and I'm not questioning the answer. My (as of yet unanswered) question is "by what rule?". Thanks to RootBreaker's correct, I found the answer: 611.3b The effect [from the static ability of an object] applies at all times that the permanent generating it is on the battlefield or the object generating it is in the appropriate zone.
-vs-
611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by the spell or ability creating it (such as "until end of turn"). If no duration is stated, it lasts until the end of the game.
(Oops, LoveMonkey posted the answer while I was writing this.)
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:02AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2011
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So if I played the Wurm on my turn and at some point after it resolved my opponent flashed in Snapcaster mage  it goes to the yard as a SBA correct?
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:07AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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no
only creatures on the field as the Wurm trigger resolves get -2/-2
creatures that enter later are unaffected (because they weren't "creatures opponent controls" at that time)
proud member of the 2011 community team
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:10AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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The set of creatures that get -2/-2 won't change after the effect starts. 611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:12AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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The set of creatures that get -2/-2 won't change after the effect starts. 611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began.
wow, that's confusing!
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:20AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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Yeah, I feel like they could stand to improve the wording on that particular rule a bit. Fortunately, it matches the expectations of most players, so we don't need to dig that one up very often.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 18, 2012 - 9:21AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Yeah, I feel like they could stand to improve the wording on that particular rule a bit. Fortunately, it matches the expectations of most players, so we don't need to dig that one up very often.
I did not mean the wording; I meant the differences between continuous effects from static abilities and those from other sources.
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