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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:41AM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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Hey all,
We had a bit of an argument whilst playing a sporty game 'o magic tonight. Here's the argument:
I had an Etched Champion (2/2 Artifact Soldier with Metalcraft-Gains protection from all colors while I control 3 or more artifacts) on the field, with some other creatures as well. A friend plays "Day of Judgement" (destroy all creatures, white instant spell). We resolved the destruction, but here's where I am fuzzy on this particular ruling:
On the offical rules, it states the normal 4 things (can't remember them off-hand), but since Day of Judgement is (technically speaking) targeting ALL creatures on the board simultaneously, why WOULDN'T "Protection from all colors" on Etched Champion work? He is technically receiving the "destroy" command from a white source, and with protection from said source, shouldn't he remain on the field? My reasoning behind this that since you are targeting all the creatures on the table at once (similar to an effect destroying all enchantments), you are "targeting" them all at once. Hence, you are still "targeting" the Etched Champion, aren't you? So, under the 4 rules stated above, the Champion should be protected, should he not? That's the "gray area" I am referring to.
Also, what about "global" effect abilities from cards like "Midnight Banshee" that give -1/-1 counters to all nonblack creatures? Would that still affect the Champion (or someone like him) who has the protection from that color? Would it affect him, or would he have protection from that effect?
I would like to know, because it seems like this rule has most of us confused. I certainly am, because it seems like if you are trying to "destroy" or "put -1/-1" counters on a creature that has protection from a certain color, it wouldn't happen.
I know about the "target" rules, and I would like you to read my reasoning a bit more. Also, if you need clarification on my reasoning, I would be happy to return to the forum and post back.
Thanks!!
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:49AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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Only things that say they target do target. Day of Judgment  (a sorcery, by the way, not an instant) does not, so it doesn't target. It is as simple as that. The rules even say, that objects can be affected without being targeted. As for what protection from X does: Can't be Damaged by X Can't be Enchanted/Equipped/Fortified by X Can't be Blocked by X Can't be Targeted by X So to determine, if protection helps against something, just check those 4 points. If none applies, protection doesn't help.
I'm a Rules Advisor now  "Simple questions" usually need rather complex answers, while complex questions often come down to no more than a simple "yes" or "no". Some of my favorite Flavor texts:
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:52AM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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It just doesn't seem that way, because you are targeting. It may not say it on the card, but you are, if you think about it...
It just doesn't seem "right" to me. I don't know how to explain it, and it is almost 2 am here.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:55AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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No matter how you feel about it, the rules are very clear on the subject of targeting:
114.9. Spells and abilities can affect objects and players they don’t target. In general, those objects and players aren’t chosen until the spell or ability resolves. See rule 608, "Resolving Spells and Abilities."
114.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the word "target" in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it’s not a target.
114.9b In particular, the word "you" in an object’s text doesn’t indicate a target.
I'm a Rules Advisor now "Simple questions" usually need rather complex answers, while complex questions often come down to no more than a simple "yes" or "no". Some of my favorite Flavor texts:
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:56AM
#5
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Day of Judgment (DoJ) doesn't target anything, because it doesn't say it targets (and doesn't have a keyword with rules text that says it targets, like Auras or the Equip ability). Cards do what they say they do, no more and no less. DoJ doesn't say it targets anything, so it doesn't. If it doesn't say it on the card, or in the rules, then it isn't happening.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 7:34AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2012
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In addition, if you had a White Knight  , it would still get affected by Midnight Banshee  's ability because the Banshee is not dealing damage and it's not targeting. But if you blocked the Banshee, it would not deal damage to the Knight because of the protection. Grim Affliction  is a case where I can't target the Knight, but because the proliferate doesn't target or do damage, your Knight would get another counter if one was already there. Edit: fixed the post because enigma pointed out a HUGE error on my part. Not enough coffee yet.... ugh 
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 7:37AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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proud member of the 2011 community team
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 9:41AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2011
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Day of Judgment doesn't target. Murder  targets. You aren't targeting with day of judgement, so protection from all colors doesn't get around it. There's nothing that says Protection from X stops any 'destroy' effects.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 10:05AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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It just doesn't seem that way, because you are targeting. It may not say it on the card, but you are, if you think about it...
"Targeted" does not mean "affected".
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12 months ago ::
Jul 15, 2012 - 1:58PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 29, 2010
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It just doesn't seem that way, because you are targeting. It may not say it on the card, but you are, if you think about it...
It just doesn't seem "right" to me. I don't know how to explain it, and it is almost 2 am here.
You are NOT targeting if the word target is not on the card. The only time you target is if the word TARGET appears on the card. For every instance of the word target as part of a resolving spell or ability, there are that many required and declared targets. If you are ever unsure of whether or not something is targeting, just look for the word target. Things that can't be targeted will get hit by global effects that do not have the word target.
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