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12 months ago  ::  Jul 14, 2012 - 1:02PM #11
ChaosLight
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Posts: 14,901
Make it return at eot and the cost much cheaper. It probably doesn't need to tap either with this wording.
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12 months ago  ::  Jul 14, 2012 - 5:48PM #12
altimis
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 4,934
The only reason I have it tap is so you can't do it if it attacked.

I was toying with having return at the EoT, but I scrapped the idea... but hearing that token stacking is skewed I might go back to Eot. However, that does get me thinking... I could lower the activation cost to , and then that requires that you blink it twice in order to get the benefit of devouring the tokens... I'll just shoot some ideas out and see which one I lean towards.

Version 1: Show

Relentless Horde --
Creature - Zombie (R)

Devour 2
, : Exile Relentless Horde and return it to the battlefield under your control.
Whenever Relentless Horde leaves the battlefield, put a 2/2 black zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each +1/+1 counter on Relentless Horde.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

I'm more than likely scrapping this design, just because it's obviously green (with minor flavor tweaks of course). So, what if I made this one spout out a token for every two +1/+1 counters on it, or do you feel that is too convoluted. I like the idea that if it devours something, that thing becomes a zombie (as part of the horde) and when the horde is dismantled, it becomes an individual zombie once again... just a thought. I like the synergy with it getting two +1/+1 counters for devouring something and spurting out 2/2 zombies; maybe limiting it to every other counter would acknowledge the doubling of tokens and what not.


Version 2: Show

Relentless Horde --
Creature - Zombie (R)

Devour 1
, : Exile Relentless Horde and return it to the battlefield under your control.
Whenever Relentless Horde leaves the battlefield, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each +1/+1 counter on Relentless Horde.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

Looking at this I agree this definitely feels more zombie-ish than the first one. And one thing I really like is it kinda resembles a Zombie Lord. Not in the most "traditional" way but it "protects" zombies per se. Flavorfully speaking this card represents the "united" horde, thus the getting bigger the more creatures it devours (takes in). Then this card "represents" the Lord, and when it is destroyed the horde is discombobulated, I guess. I don't know. I do like that it kind of implies itself as a zombie lord without being all "Hey, I'm a zombie lord!"


Version 3: Show

Relentless Horde --
Creature - Zombie (R)

Devour 1
: Exile Relentless Horde. Return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step.
Whenever Relentless Horde leaves the battlefield, put a 2/2 black zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each +1/+1 counter on Relentless Horde.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

My only problem with this is that it plays negatively in multiplayer formats (and or other formats) where board sweepers are key. It takes some of the novelty of protecting your zombies even though it protects yourself. For instance, if someone casts Damnation , with previous versions you could flicker your Lord, and devour each creature you currently control (maybe getting zombie tokens in the process) and then the board wipe takes effect killing your lord (and other non-devoured creatures), thus releasing the Lord's stash of 2/2 zombies in a rampage. With this version it simply hides itself, which I'm not too fond of. I do enjoy not requiring it to tap though, and that will make future designs for sure.


So those are my thought processes from what has transpired since my absence. Here are things I want:
+ I like that it doesn't devour it's tokens: Flavorwise, zombies just shouldn't eat other zombies. That's cannabilism and that is just wrong.
+ I like not having to tap it, so it can do it "as though it had haste".
+ I like the Devour 2 and producing 2/2 zombies, but I don't know if Put zombies tokens for every two +1/+1 counters on it is worth the space.

My favorite combination:

Relentless Horde --
Creature - Zombie (R)

Devour 1
: Exile Relentless Horde and return it to the battlefield under your control.
Whenever Relentless Horde leaves the battlefield, put a 2/2 black zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each +1/+1 counter on Relentless Horde.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

My reasoning:
I costed it the same as a lord, I like that slightly distinguishing characteristic of being a zombie lord.
Devour 2 and every other just doesn't ring well with me. Devour 1 and 1/1 zombies are just meh to me. So I stuck with Devour 1; 2/2 zombies.
I kept it not being able to devour the zombies it generates (that turn at least), it just rings more flavor to me.
I'm considering starting it a 2/2 like many old school lords, but that I@m not too concerned about, plus I feel it's too good starting with a 2/2 body... but that's just me, maybe.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. I really like where this is going!
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Feb 5, 2013 -- 9:38PM, Dr_Demento wrote:

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12 months ago  ::  Jul 14, 2012 - 6:33PM #13
MacabreManatee
Date Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 16
How 'bout making it come into play with a +1/+1 counter (as an extra or making it a 0/0). That way you get an extra counter when you do this.
I am White/Green
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12 months ago  ::  Jul 14, 2012 - 6:40PM #14
altimis
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 4,934
Hmmm... I do like that, but tweaked a little. Something like:
Whenever Relentless Horde leaves the battlefield, put X 2/2 black zombie creature tokens onto the battlefield where X is Relentless Horde's power.

This way, starting it as a 1/1 ensures that I will at least net one 2/2 zombie each iteration. My only problem with that is that it might be too good to fit with the costs I've associated with it, and black doesn't seem to get a lot of token producers. I'll hold off on that for now, but I'll keep it in mind. I really like that idea.
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Feb 5, 2013 -- 9:38PM, Dr_Demento wrote:

I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.


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