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Jul 16, 2012 -- 2:37AM, Amarsir wrote:

Tibalt was intentionally pushing the cmc barrier so he's not a great example.  The Chandras, especially 2.0, would have had potential at different costs. Also if they'd wanted to, Sarkhan Vol probably could have been red-only.  (Change the first ability to +1/+0.)  It would have been a fine card.

That said, Planeswalkers are inherently long-game cards and Red has never really found a place in the long game.  

Okay, I suppose you're right to some extent.  Chandra Ablaze would certainly have been fun to abuse if she had been costed reasonably.  But it's a case where making her cost less does more than just affect the power of the card, but it affects how it plays, as well.  You can't put an ability that's only worthwhile on cheap spells onto an expensive spell and then say "Oh, sure, we could have made it stronger by making it cheaper, but stronger doesn't equal good design."  Cheaper DOES mean good design when the ability actively hurts you relative to your opponent when you're running 6-mana spells in your deck.

Chandra 3.0 is just boring.  Her ultimate and +1's are incredibly tame compared to almost any other 4-mana 'walker.  Her second ability has potential, but it becomes obvious real quick that it's a 1-shot most of the time, which is also boring.  It's the same thing where tweaking the numbers wouldn't just make her stronger, but would actually make her more interesting - as is, she's basically just a worse Prodigal Pyromancer.  Chandra 3.0 isn't even a particularly good limited card, because the costs for using her as anything other than a bad Prodigal Pyromancer are typically not worth it or not achievable.

Jul 16, 2012 -- 7:27AM, PirateAmmo wrote:

Jul 15, 2012 -- 11:37PM, EyeballFrog wrote:

I think the better question is why Ranger's Path and not Skyshroud Claim ?

I think it is because Skyshroud Claim defies the the expectation set by Rampant Growth and Primeval Titan . Players expect free lands to enter the battlefield tapped.

I disagree: Balance says lands you fetch out of your library should come into play untapped. It is quite likely that the cost of Skyshroud Claim is too low for its effect, and thus would be higher were it to grab nonbasics and put them on the field untapped. Recall a past article on the site discussing the costs of cards that are basically putting two copies of a single card together? Their powerlevel is pretty high, and only balanced by making them much more expensive than they normally would be: Innocent Blood -> Barter in Blood , and so forth. Skyshroud Claim is a double Nature's Lore / Three Visits , but may be too cheap.

Jul 16, 2012 -- 7:04PM, fractal wrote:

Jul 16, 2012 -- 3:22PM, Qilong wrote:

I disagree: Balance says lands you fetch out of your library should come into play untapped. It is quite likely that the cost of Skyshroud Claim is too low for its effect, and thus would be higher were it to grab nonbasics and put them on the field untapped. Recall a past article on the site discussing the costs of cards that are basically putting two copies of a single card together? Their powerlevel is pretty high, and only balanced by making them much more expensive than they normally would be: Innocent Blood -> Barter in Blood , and so forth. Skyshroud Claim is a double Nature's Lore / Three Visits , but may be too cheap.

Whether or not adding the casting costs together is balanced or not depends entirely upon the effect.  If it's a cheap effect (1 mana), such that the main cost to using it is the card rather than the mana cost, then doubling the power and doubling the cost is likely to be overpowered.  For example, double Lightning Bolt or even double Shock would be ridiculous.  On the other hand, doubling the cost of a more expensive effect (4+ mana) is likely to make the card unplayable, up until the point where the card is so powerful that the cost is irrelevant, because people jump through hoops to avoid paying its mana cost ( Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , I'm looking at you).

In the middle are effects that cost 2-3 mana; doubling or combining these may create effects that are strong (six damage to a target for would be pretty good) or weak ( Rain of Salt was unplayable).

Yes, so instead of double Nature's Lore , you get double Rampant Growth ; which is better than Rampant Growth + Lay of the Land , but it also gives more of a 2:1 to Modern and EDH, which enjoy these "double up" cards. Double Regrowth is Restock , costs 1 more, and exiles itself. And it's still considered very powerful!

Part of the effect of balance here is that you expand on cost or reduce the power of the effect to make the card available under a given criterion; but sometimes the people out there will instead cheapen this, or empower that and thus unbalance it to make it viable in a given format ( Darksteel Ingot as a common was a push, whereas the mechanic {artifact, 3, taps for 1 mana of any color; extra effect} is an uncommon which Manalith may now baseline. But no matter, balance is the driving force here, while other features are secondary to it.