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Switch to Forum Live View Confused about Formats and Tournament types
11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 3:13PM #1
Damoklese
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2012
Posts: 48
Hey everyone,

So the last time I played magic was very VERY casually about 15 years ago (I played alone or with one friend of mine. I had a starter deck and about 10 booster packs total).

Recently I downloaded Magic 2013 on my Ipad and fell in love with the game.  I have played a number of TCG video games with magic-like rules so im not a stranger to TCGs in general, but I never tackled magic because it just seems to be so massive an undertaking to get into it.

That being said, with the release of the 2013 cards this friday I thought it would be a good time to try to get started.   I figured that I would go to my local shop this friday and pick up one of the intro decks (im thinking ill go with Kenko's goblin deck because im considering making a mono-fire deck..though I may go with exalted darkness just cause it has that fire-deck feel to it).

Anyway.. the thing is.. im having a hard time figuring out exactly which sets ill be able to pull cards from in order to be legal for the "standard" format, once 2013 comes out.  So basically I had some questions and ill list them here so this is easier to follow..

1) Which card sets (or block or whatever) can I use to make a deck that is viable for the standard format after 2013 releases this friday?

2) How long will these cards I get be standard legal?  And once they are not standard legal anymore.. what format will they be legal in next? 

3) My local shop is going to be having a launch event where they are doing one of those sealed booster pack tournament things. I am thinking about taking part because it will give me some cards and also net me one of those promotional cards.  My question is... as a real newbie, should I be doing this?  I think I read somewhere that I could get the promotional card some other way but I cant find the info now. 

***3a) Am I gonna be lost and make people angry at how inept I am? According to the gal at the counter that I talked to..everyone is real friendly and helpful.  But sometimes people say that when it isnt entirely true :D

***3b) Also.. could someone explain to me exactly how one of these things works so that im not fumbling around and asking 100 questions about what I should be doing? 

***3c) Any tips on how I should go about doing things so as to not look like a complete moron when making my deck? hehe

***3d) I want to say she said it was a draft tournament.  If so.. when im picking a card from a pack, should I be looking for cards I want to use in my deck that night, or cards I want to use in my deck down the road, or cards that are most valuable?

4) What should I buy on friday?  I was thinking that an intro deck and the boosters for the tournament would be what id be getting.. but will there be anything else im gonna need?  If so... can anyone give me a rough idea of about how much cash I need to have on me to get what im gonna need?

5) This is a broad question.. but how the heck should I figure out what deck to make?

lol.. I know that number 5 is probably impossible to really answer, and I do know some basics of what kind of deck I want.. but ive no idea yet what cards I should be looking at to try to build it.  Essentially, I want a deck that is straightforward and aggressive.. but not necessarily a weenie deck.  I dont want to be owned by spells..so some kind of counter spelling or powerful spells of my own would be preferred.  I dont want to have to keep track of a bunch of counters or a ton of upkeep every turn.. and ive never been a big fan of decks that sacrifice cards/creatures to do things.  

I was considering a mono-red deck.. not goblin. I love reverberate and some of the great damage spells that red gets...but black seems to get some great spells too, and they have more creatures to choose from than red (once you take out the goblins). But green has a lot of really great creatures too, and their enchantments are stupid strong.  Then there is blue with its counterspells and such.. so yeah its just kind of hard to decide how I want to go about doing this.

I know its difficult to give advice with so little info, but any insight you can give me would be welcome.  Im trying to make a newbie friendly deck that is fun to play, cool to look at, and not a complete pushover against the more convoluted and tricky decks that experienced players will use.  All while avoiding weenies, a plethora of counters, and sacrificing.   I should also clarify that im not looking for someone to build my deck for me,  I am just looking for some direction so I can figure out where to start looking for the cards I want.


Anyway, this is getting pretty long so Ill stop here.  Thanks for reading and I hope yall can help me out :D
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 7:38PM #2
Flyheight
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 1,124
Hi and welcome (back) to the game!

Since you kindly numbered your questions I'll respond in the same order:

1)To understand "Standard" you have to understand how Wizards (the folks who make MtG) release their product.  Wizards tends to break card releases up into Core Sets (released every summer) and Blocks.  Each "Block" is released as 3 separate "Sets" that are released at specific times.  Each of the "Sets" within a block all follow the same general theme and have a good coherent feel to them when you play them all together (Usually).

Each Set is released one at a time: The Summer Core Set in July (This year it's Magic 2013), the Fall Set in October (This is always the first set of the new block), the Winter Set in February (This is always the second set of the new block), and the Spring Set in May (this is always the third and final set of the new block).

For example this is how the last few years have been released:


Summer 2009: Magic 2010 Core Set
Fall 2009: Zendikar Block: Zendikar Set (Fall 2007 Block and Summer 2007 Core Set rotate out of "Standard")
Winter 2010: Zendikar Block: Worldwake Set
Spring 2012: Zendikar Block: Rise of the Eldrazi Set
Summer 2010: Magic 2011 Core Set
Fall 2010: Scars of Mirrodin Block: Scars of Mirrodin Set (Fall 2008 Block and Summer 2008 Core Set rotate out of "Standard")
Winter 2011: Scars of Mirrodin Block: Mirrodin Beseiged Set
Spring 2011: Scars of Mirrodin Block: New Phyrexia Set
Summer 2011: Magic 2012 Core Set
Fall 2011: Innistrad Block: Innistrad Set (Zendikar Block and Magic 2010 Core Set rotate out of "Standard")
Winter 2012: Innistrad Block: Dark Ascension Set
Spring 2012: Innistrad Block: Avacyn Restored Set
Summer 2012: Magic 2013 Core Set
Fall 2012: Return to Ravnica Block: Return to Ravnica Set (Scars of Mirrodin Block and Magic 2011 Core Set rotate out of "Standard")

The format rotation occurs with the start of every new "Block".  Each Set is legal for "Standard" play upon its release and rotates out with it's entire block when the second new "Block" after it is released.

What does this mean for you?  Well once Magic 2013 (or M13 as we call it sometimes) is released you will be able to play with any card from the Scars of Mirrodin Block (This means everything from Scars of Mirrodin set, Mirrodin Beseiged set, and New Phyrexia set), from M12, from the Innistrad Block (This means everything from Innistrad set, Dark Ascension set, and Avacyn Restored set), and from M13. 

However this massive card pool will be cut drastically when Return to Ravnica Block is released this Fall.  While you will now be able to play with Return to Ravnica Set cards, when that happens you will no longer be allowed to play with cards from Scars of Mirrodin Block (This includes Scars of Mirrodin set, Mirrodin Beseiged set, and New Phyrexia set) or from M12.  But do note, that if a card that was printed in a set that has rotated out has been reprinted in a set that is still in rotation, you may use your old copy of the card.  For example, if you own a Tormented Soul from M12, you may still use it after M12 rotates out this Fall because this card was reprinted in M13.

This Standard rotation is only relevant to you if you plan to play in sanctioned competetive tournaments.  Many people (myself included) just play casually and we use whatever cards we can get our hands on from whatever sets we please.

2)There is only one other rotating format in existance, and that is Extended.  However most places don't bother with Extended anymore.  Where Standard is just the 2 most recent Blocks and the 1 (and for short periods of time, 2) most recent Core Set, Extended is the 4 most recent Blocks and the 3 (for short periods of time, 4) most recent Core Sets.  Extended format rotates at the same time that Standard format rotates.  Note that the cardpool for Standard is also part of the cardpool for Extended.

The other existing Constructed Tournament formats do not rotate.  They only have a Starting point and a Ban/Restricted list.  These formats are:
Legacy:  You may play with any card in existance except for those on the Legacy ban list
Vintage: You may play with any card in existance except for those on the Vintage ban list.  Vintage also has a restricted list, if a card is on the restricted list you may only have 1 copy of that card in your deck.
Modern:  You may play with any card that has the new card frame as opposed to the old card frame as long as it's not on the Modern ban list.
The ban lists are here:  Linky

3)My answer to you is HELL YES you should go.  I do have one question though, is the event "Sealed" or "Booster Draft"?  Sealed is a bit easier for the new player because you don't have to make decisions on the fly.  Sealed is just, they give you 6 booster packs and you crack them open and make the best 40 card deck you can with them.  While Booster Draft does force you to think on your feet a little bit, it's still not too bad.  If you want a little practice with drafting try the draft simulator.  The draft sim won't use M13 cards (yet, that will be updated next week), but you can still get a feel for picking cards.  At the end of the Draft Sim there will be a button that says "Discuss", click it and it will lead you to a forum thread here where people talk about the decks they chose and sometimes why they chose them.  As for alternate ways to obtain the promo, there are 2 that I know of.  First is to trade for it or buy it off someone else.  Second is if the store had a few extras left over they may use them as door prizes at other FNMs.  Honestly, just go to the Release event.  You'll enjoy yourself.

3a)I'd trust the lady at the counter.  Game store owners tend to know their crowd, especially if it's a smaller game store.  I know I've been the guy to hold up the line in draft sometimes, just don't let it get to you.  If you take more than a few minutes they may ask you politely (or teasingly, depending on the crowd) to make up your mind, but it should NEVER be truly hostile.  To help reduce the time it takes to evaluate which cards you should pick in the draft I suggest you get familiar with the cards in the set through the Card Image Gallery.

3b)For Booster Draft:  You will be seated at a table with (most likely) 7 other people.  Each person will be given a booster pack.  When the Tournament Organizer says "go" you each open your packs.  Select one card from the pack that you would like to keep and pass the rest of the pack to the person on your left.  Once the entire pack has been depleted the T.O. will give everyone a new pack.  This time you will open the packs, pick one card from it and pass the rest of the cards from that pack to the person on your RIGHT.  Once all of the pack 2s have been depleted you will each be given one last booster pack.  You will open the packs, pull one card from it and pass to the left again.

IMPORTANT NOTE:  Later in the draft you will have your stack of cards that you want to keep sitting in front of you:  Be very careful that you do not accidentally pass your stack of cards instead of the remains of the booster pack.

3c)  Tips for building a deck in Limited (Be it Sealed or Booster Draft):
A)Try to stay as close to the 40 card minimum as possible.  You'll note that this number is less than the typical constructed deck of 60 cards.  This is simply due to the limited number of cards you are working with.  You may go over 40 cards, but it's not recommended.
B)You will want your deck split the following ways:
16-18 Lands
15-17 creature spells
6-8 non-creature spells
C)Try to stick to 2 colors, maybe splash a 3rd color.  Splash means just use 1-3 lands of the off color, take very few cards of the off color, and only take cards that have a single colored symbol of that off color type in their cost.  Cleaver Riot is a splashable card, Wild Guess , not so much.
D)Try to keep at least half of all your spells to a casting cost of 3 mana or less.  I usually try to take it a step further and make sure that half of my creature spells cost 3 mana or less AND half of my non-creature spells cost 3 mana or less.  Otherwise you run the risk of technically having half your spells cost 3 mana or less but if they are most or all non-creatures then you will have trouble with having no proactive creature plays for the first few turns.
E) A good beginners trick for evaluating cards is the acronym BREAD:  Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Attackers/Abilities, Defensive.  This is the order of importance with which you should weight the cards in your pack.  A  "Bomb" is a big huge creature or finisher spell, usually a rare or mythic rare creature like Thundermaw Hellkite , and is the top priority for selection.  Removal is a spell that gets rid of an opposing player's creatures or permanents, can be any rarity, Oblivion Ring and Murder fall into this category.  Evasion means a creature that is harder to block, can be any rarity, the most common form of evasion seen is flying but there is also trample , or straight up unblockable among other things.  Attackers/Ability creatures are creatures that allow you to be proactive on the battlefield, whether it be through just normal attacking like Knight of Glory or can actively provide you with some benefit like War Priest of Thune blowing up an annoying artifact or enchantment.  Defensive creatures are ones that typically have a very large toughness compared to their attack power like Guardian Lions .  This acronym is just a suggestion and there are many exceptions, but it's a good starting place.

3D)How you select cards is up to you, but I personally try to evaluate cards primarily on what will work best in my deck that night.  Sure if I see 1 or 2 cards that are either huge money or I know I want later and I know I can't play in its color(s) tonight then I might pick them up anyway.  But for the most part it's all about having fun and building the best deck you can.  Mind you, one of the awesome things about draft is that if you open up a pack 1 pick 1  (or even pack 2 or 3) money card like Ajani, Caller of the Pride you can often try to actively pick cards to help you build around it in that very same draft.

4)an Intro deck and Boosters is fine for your first event.  Don't forget to bring a pencil and paper to keep track of your life total in game.  Or, if you prefer, buy/bring dice with you to track your life total.  Booster Draft is usually $16, the Intro packs are MSRP $15+Tax.
The contents of the Intro packs are here.  From what you said below in item 5+, if you buy any of the Intro packs at all I'd recommend buying the B/W Exalted deck "Sole Domination".  You said you don't like counters, tokens, or goblins and that's pretty much all Krenko's "Mob Rule" deck is.  Sure there are 3 burn spells in there, but I wouldn't pick it up if those are all you're interested in.  If all you want is a straight up mono-red burn deck then you can just skip the intro packs all together and just buy single cards.

5)As for what deck to make.  If you are talking about for the draft portion, that depends entirely on the cards that get passed around.  The "Best" deck in a draft is not a single given archetype or color combination, it's whatever colors are open to you as you pull cards out of the deck.

On the other hand if you're talking about constructing yourself a deck outside the draft you have LOTS AND LOTS OF OPTIONS!

Judging by what you've said a sort of Green/Red midrange deck is what you're looking for.  If you want ideas I suggest browsing the Gatherer.
For cool idea starting points try Magmaquake , Mindclaw Shaman , Rancor or Thragtusk (although thraggy here is a bit pricey on the singles market right now ~$12).

There, I think that hit all your points.
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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr:

the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play?

I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 12, 2012 - 12:26AM #3
Damoklese
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2012
Posts: 48
Awesome reply!  Thank you so much...things are much clearer now. 

Thats a shame that im coming in right on the tail end of the current standard block.  But no big deal I suppose.. It looks like ive got plenty to start off working with in the 2013 cards, and I dont have any plans of trying to play professionally anytime in the near future :D..so I dont think it will hurt me to just pick what looks good and play it with the folks locally.

I believe it is a sealed draft, rather than a booster.  That should make things a bit easier since I dont have to worry about holding up a line or trying to make a choice between a few cards in a booster.  Course I also guess im gonna need to bring enough to buy 6 boosters and an intro pack.  Thank you for the tips on how to go about building my deck.. there is a lot of info there that I hadnt even considered.  If I manage to make it past the first round ill have you to thank :D

Im glad you recommended the Exalted B/W deck because that is the deck that ive been favoring in DOTP lately.  I see that the intro pack doesnt exactly follow the video game's deck, but overall it looks like it will have the same feel so I think this will be a good jumping off point for me. One thing it doesnt have that the video game version does is a lot of aggressive spells for killing creatures.  That might be something I have to remedy with some single card purchases on Friday. Or I dunno.. maybe ill strip all the exalted out of it and build a black and red deck.  I love the flexibility of Reverberate and want a deck with 4 of them in it.   I also really like that Mindclaw shaman :D.. expensive for a 2/2, but I bet its awesome when it works.


One more question... in sealed draft its 6 booster packs.  So thats gonna be like $25 right?  Then the intro pack for 15.. so im guessing i need about $40-50 with me.  That sound about right?  Or are there other charges im not aware of?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.  You have been incredibly helpful.


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11 months ago  ::  Jul 12, 2012 - 4:17AM #4
kashonismw
Date Joined: Oct 8, 2007
Posts: 1,749

Jul 12, 2012 -- 12:26AM, Damoklese wrote:

One more question... in sealed draft its 6 booster packs.  So thats gonna be like $25 right?  Then the intro pack for 15.. so im guessing i need about $40-50 with me.  That sound about right?  Or are there other charges im not aware of?


Most stores do booster drafts on a regular basis. Not allot of stores to do seals as much anymore (kinda sad really). When ever a Set or Coreset comes out there is a pre-release and a launch party. Now those are usually a week apart and the nice thing about pre-releases and launch parties is that you can always count on them to be sealed tournaments. Sealed tournaments used to be $25 dollars, but they discontinued the tournament packs (A booster pack bundle that contained the equivalent of 3 packs and 6 of each basic lands. They were great to stock up on lands and still buy packs.) back in 2008 and made seals go from a tournament pack and 2-3 booster packs to 6 boosters. Anycase
 what I'm getting at is that making it 6 booster packs increased the cost of the sealed tournaments. Most places charge $30 for a seal via pre-release or launch party.

Intro packs used to cost around $10 each and back in 2009 or so they reduced them to 40 card decks, vice 60, and included a booster pack. They raised the price to $12. Now wizards has returned to the 60 card count for intro packs and still includes 1-2 boosters. The price is $12-15 now I think.

Event decks are pretty neat too, and you might want to check those out. Two event decks come out every set (this includes core sets) Event decks usually cost $20-25, but they include multiple copies of cards (3ofs and 4ofs) which you don't often find in an intro pack. The deck also include more rares and cards from all throughout standard (intro packs only use it's own block and a few cards from the coresets. event decks use both bocks and coreset).

Intro packs are getting better than they have in the last couple of years, but I've always known event decks to be better built for the pick up and play mentality.

Anycase, expect to pay $30 for the seal and at the most $15 for intropack. Bring at least $50 to the event so you have enough for tax.

I really like them myself (again sad most stores don't do them as often anymore on a regular basis).

You get 45 min or so to build a 40 card deck. If you finish quickly, try playtesting with yourself or the person across from you (they might not though). Your sideboard for this event will be anything and everything in your card pool, remember that. Also you can use any copies of cards you got. For instance, if you got 5-6 copies of a common (doesn't happen often, but it can) then you can use all 6 copies if you chose to. Normally you follow the 4of a card is the max you can have. But with seals it's legal to go above 4 copies because it's what you have to work with. You also can build more than 1 deck out of your 6 booster packs. It's not always recommended, but if you have extra time during construction or in between rounds you can use your extra cards to build a second deck or entirely rework your strategy and build a completely different deck. If you build a second deck using your left over cards, it's perfectly legal to use it a sideboard option. It can throw your opponent off guard and sometimes turn the game in your favor if you originally had a bad match up.

I hope this all helps. Good luck at the seal and welcome back to MTG!

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 12, 2012 - 11:14AM #5
Flyheight
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 1,124
"Sealed", where you get 6 packs and just build from those usually costs $30.  You pay extra because you are contributing one pack to the prize pool.  The exception to this is the prerelease (which happened last weekend 7/6-7/8), where the cost is just $25 because for the prerelease Wizards provides the prize support.

Booster draft is much more common than sealed, however prereleases are always Sealed and launch FNMs (which is what you're going to) can be either sealed or booster draft, but it's up to the store.

Way back when, several years back the intro packs were ~$10 a piece and were just 60 card decks.  Then for a short stint they went to 40 card decks plus 1 booster pack, still $10.  Then the intro packs bumped up to $12 when they went 60 card decks and 1 booster pack.  The new/current intro packs are $15 and are 60 card decks plus 2 booster packs.

Another thing about the rounds, they are what are called Swiss rounds.  You will not drop out of competition until they cut to the top 8 (or 4 depending on the group size).  Even if you lose your first match you can still play in the second round, you'll just be paired down with someone else who also lost their first match (unless there are an odd number of pairings and you get unlucky in which case you might get paired up with someone who won their first match even if you lost yours).

The Event Decks that Kashonismw mentioned won't be available at the launch FNM.  They come out in a few weeks on August 8th.  We don't officially know the contents of the decks yet, but you might be able to find out if you poke around on line, I don't see them though.  Event Decks are typically much stronger than Intro packs, but they do cost more: MSRP $25 (unless they change something for M13).

Oh yeah, building off of what Kashonismw said: you can completely change out any number of cards between games for Sealed/Booster Draft (even make a whole new deck like kashonismw said).  You may choose from among any of the cards in your pool and make any changes you want.  You also do not have to change your deck back to its original version after a match/round is complete (unlike in a constructed tournament where you have a strict decklist and sideboard that must be the same at the start of every match).  And feel free to ask people for advice on your deck between matches/rounds.
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr:

the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play?

I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 13, 2012 - 11:02PM #6
Damoklese
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2012
Posts: 48
Well the FNM went well.  They switched it from a sealed deck to a booster draft because of the 10-12 people there, they all wanted booster draft  I ended up chickening out and just bought myself some boosters and didnt take part in the tourny.

I also ended up changing my mind at the last minute on the intro deck and instead got the path to victory deck (blue/white).   I also picked up the 2013 deckbuilders toolkit, and was able to acquire some other useful cards as well and converted my blue/white deck into a mono-white soldier deck.

Overall it was a blast.  I managed to pair up with a guy who had been playing for about a week who was trying to build a Nicol Bolas deck, and we played a few matches together.

Thanks for all the advice guys.  Really smoothed things over and made it easier to go in there and take part.   Looking forward to doing it again next friday... or I may try and go again tomorrow :D.
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