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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 9:31PM #1
Chaikov
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 5,794
The Comprehensive Rulebook is unfair unjust!

Cascade has a «cumulative» rule:
702.83b If a spell has multiple instances of cascade, each triggers separately.
But Exalted has none.


Equip has a «make a choice» rule:
702.6c If a permanent has multiple instances of equip, any of its equip abilities may be activated.
But Flashback has none. 



Wither has a «redundancy» rule:
702.78d Multiple instances of wither on the same object are redundant.
But Totem Armor has none.*
 



Equal rights for all rules! 
Equal rights for all rules!
Equal rights for all rules!




*Admitedly, the last example sucks...
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»

Sounds familiar?
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 9:33PM #2
Enigma256
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 13,845
Until M13 there was no way (that I know of) to get a permanent multiple instances of Exalted
that explains that

and yeah, Totem Armor is not redundant as such
proud member of the 2011 community team
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 10, 2012 - 10:04PM #3
Bowshewicz
Date Joined: Apr 12, 2012
Posts: 1,625
This gets me thinking about spells with multiple Flashback costs. If I weren't so lazy, I'd already be over at YMtC.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 2:24AM #4
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,459
Totem Armor used to have a rule saying it was redundant. That rule was removed, presumably because the rules team found a way that it's not redundant in occasional circumstances.

The accepted answer on this question shows one extreme corner case where they're not redundant.


On the more general point, these kinds of rules are what we informally call "reminder rules". They're not decreeing anything by themselves; they're just spelling out for clarity what are the consequences of the existing rules. You can deduce for yourself whether multiple instances of exalted all trigger separately (they do), so none of these rules are really necessary, they're just there for convenience.

(FWIW, creatures could have multiple instances of exalted since Planechase 2009.)
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 8:12AM #5
forty2j
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,410
Would it not be easier if there were just a rule saying:

7xx.x Multiple instances of the following abilities are cumuluative:
7xx.xa Cascade
7xx.xb Exalted

(and so forth, perhaps explaining what the cumulative instances actually do if it's non-obvious).

And then a mirror rule for redundancy.
Rules Advisor.
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[c]Dragon Fodder[/c] => Dragon Fodder
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 8:19AM #6
Chaikov
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 5,794

Jul 11, 2012 -- 2:24AM, alextfish wrote:

On the more general point, these kinds of rules are what we informally call "reminder rules". They're not decreeing anything by themselves; they're just spelling out for clarity what are the consequences of the existing rules. You can deduce for yourself whether multiple instances of exalted all trigger separately (they do), so none of these rules are really necessary, they're just there for convenience.


That's absolutely true, so they might as well delete them all...

...but the question «Is Lifelink/Exalted/Flying cumulative?» comes back so often on the RulesQ&A Forum,
they might as well include them all,  
or adopt Forty2j's idea, which is quite elegant.

«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»

Sounds familiar?
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 11:54AM #7
MRHblue
Date Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 932
Nitpick: The name of this thread should be 'Unjust Rulebook' the rulebook is fair Tongue Out
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 11, 2012 - 12:50PM #8
Nyktos
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 3,334

Jul 10, 2012 -- 9:33PM, Enigma256 wrote:

Until M13 there was no way (that I know of) to get a permanent multiple instances of Exalted



In Planechase you could.

blah blah metal lyrics
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 15, 2012 - 9:02PM #9
RPJesus
Date Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 15,146

Jul 11, 2012 -- 12:50PM, Nyktos wrote:

Jul 10, 2012 -- 9:33PM, Enigma256 wrote:

Until M13 there was no way (that I know of) to get a permanent multiple instances of Exalted



In Planechase you could.



Plus they might as well cover their bases given that this is Magic we're talking about .

Zammm = Batman.
Bronies unite.
"I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room."
It's my sig in a box Show

Jul 29, 2012 -- 9:56PM, ChaosLight wrote:


Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.


Oct 18, 2012 -- 11:06AM, SteelWall wrote:

Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.


Oct 26, 2012 -- 8:17AM, Chaikov wrote:

Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.



Dec 3, 2012 -- 10:18PM, Splattercat wrote:


Funny story:
InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. 
I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:

Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?"
Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." 
Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb."
Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."

I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.

Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.


My DM on Battleminds:

no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.





Jan 15, 2013 -- 5:28PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:


Jan 15, 2013 -- 5:20PM, Jerrymm91 wrote:

Hi guys!  So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic.  I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked.  Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon.  Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in.  Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play.  I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's.  However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks.  I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real.  I want to begin playing it as a regular.  My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck?  Or are there special rules?  Are some cards forbidden or restricted?  Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol. 


I have the same problem with women.




Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry Show


Jan 7, 2012 -- 6:59PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.



Dec 2, 2012 -- 1:39PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.



Dec 17, 2012 -- 4:27PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.




Feb 8, 2012 -- 4:40AM, ArtVenn wrote:

I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now.

O' Jesus

Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle.

Amen.


Feb 17, 2011 -- 3:08AM, ArtVenn wrote:

Feb 16, 2011 -- 6:43PM, RPJesus wrote:

It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think  about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills


Seriously, that was amazing.  I laughed my *ss off.  Made my day, and I just woke up.


ArtVenn
You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.




Jan 11, 2012 -- 7:19AM, Salla wrote:

Jan 11, 2012 -- 4:37AM, Ogiwan wrote:


.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?



Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again?

Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.


May 16, 2011 -- 12:18PM, Salla wrote:

I don't say this often, but ...

LOL



May 10, 2010 -- 7:37AM, AivaRuin wrote:



You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...

Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.

And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.



Jun 29, 2011 -- 11:05AM, Lineov wrote:

Jun 28, 2011 -- 2:44PM, Litmus wrote:



I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here.  ...



Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic


Jan 16, 2012 -- 11:37PM, febbstalicious42 wrote:

Jan 16, 2012 -- 11:35PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jan 16, 2012 -- 9:58PM, HeartlessNobody wrote:

we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary


So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?


I lol'd.


Oct 26, 2011 -- 11:40PM, zammm wrote:

Oct 26, 2011 -- 7:43PM, TyGuy42 wrote:

Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?

The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."



Feb 9, 2012 -- 8:41AM, Dilleux_Lepaire wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Feb 9, 2012 -- 7:45AM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:49AM, ORC_Ragnar wrote:

I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.

...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?



I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?

Right.



Mar 9, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Garthanos wrote:

Mar 7, 2012 -- 4:54PM, RPJesus wrote:


Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).



Mar 19, 2012 -- 5:07PM, Kalnaur wrote:

Mar 19, 2012 -- 4:41PM, DoctorBadWolf wrote:


This just won the argument, AFAIC.



That's just awesome.



May 12, 2010 -- 9:36AM, JustTerrorIt wrote:

May 11, 2010 -- 5:46PM, Master_Yumyums wrote:

HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?!  WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!



That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.

And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.

He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).



Dec 16, 2011 -- 10:16AM, HairlessThoctar wrote:


+10



Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:23PM, Eonblueapocalypse1 wrote:

Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:13PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:02PM, tehbeast wrote:

heaven or hell.


Round 1. Lets rock.



GG quotes!

RPJesus just made this thread win!



Jul 25, 2012 -- 12:06AM, WhiteRaven810 wrote:

Jul 23, 2012 -- 6:26PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jul 23, 2012 -- 5:47PM, felisdomesticus wrote:


Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS.  I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about:  creatures.


Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .



You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.



On what flavor text fits me:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 12:55AM, CadaverousBl00m wrote:

Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius ?



Sep 15, 2012 -- 4:24PM, Dragon_Nut wrote:


First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.



Sep 17, 2012 -- 1:31PM, Banderbear wrote:


I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.



Jan 2, 2013 -- 7:46AM, royk wrote:



I you loads



Jan 20, 2013 -- 10:27PM, TV_Casualty wrote:

Jan 20, 2013 -- 10:17PM, RPJesus wrote:

"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran


10/10. Amazing.



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11 months ago  ::  Jul 16, 2012 - 1:17PM #10
WotC_dlaugel
Date Joined: May 16, 2002
Posts: 358
Totem armor is not the only effect that could replace the destruction of the enchanted permanent. I have yet to see a proposal for a reminder rule that is both helpful and true. The rules for the interaction of replacement effects can be found elsewhere.
Del Laugel
Senior editor, Magic TCG
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